UFOs may solve global warming

[Ron Caliburn]

OTTAWA (AFP) - A former Canadian defense minister is demanding governments worldwide disclose and use secret alien technologies obtained in alleged UFO crashes to stem climate change, a local paper said Wednesday.

"I would like to see what (alien) technology there might be that could eliminate the burning of fossil fuels within a generation ... that could be a way to save our planet," Paul Hellyer, 83, told the Ottawa Citizen.

Alien spacecrafts would have traveled vast distances to reach Earth, and so must be equipped with advanced propulsion systems or used exceptional fuels, he told the newspaper.

Such alien technologies could offer humanity alternatives to fossil fuels, he said, pointing to the enigmatic 1947 incident in Roswell, New Mexico -- which has become a shrine for UFO believers -- as an example of alien contact.

"We need to persuade governments to come clean on what they know. Some of us suspect they know quite a lot, and it might be enough to save our planet if applied quickly enough," he said.

Hellyer became defense minister in former prime minister Lester Pearson's cabinet in 1963, and oversaw the controversial integration and unification of Canada's army, air force and navy into the Canadian Forces.

He shocked Canadians in September 2005 by announcing he once saw a UFO.

When will the governemnts of the world step forward to share with us what they have?

[Holister]

They're still waitin' for the patents to come through

[DarKnyht]

It would be interesting to see some of the stuff that governments are hiding.

I bet they even have freakin' sharks with laser beams.

[Kolya]

It would be interesting to see some of the stuff that governments are hiding.

I bet they even have freakin' sharks with laser beams.

But not sharks, dolphins.

[SensorArray]

Wasn't the guy asking this the same one that said over a year ago that we already had the technology from crashed spacecraft and the US had a secret moon base on the dark side to fight extra terrestrial invaders? If not it must be a requirement to be obsessed with UFO's to be a Defense Minister in Canada. As must as I'd like to believe this the guy seems a bit off his rocker.

[DarKnyht]

Of course UFOs could solve the global warming problem. They are going to run a documentary on BBC 4 that is going to argue that the problem even exists. It seems like a bunch of scientists don't agree with the UN's findings, nor with their name being put on the paperwork.

It would be quite easy for something to solve a problem if there is really no problem.

[Kolya]

Sort of like encumberance. If you ignore it, it does not exist.

[Natasha]

Sort of like encumberance. If you ignore it, it does not exist.

What?!

[DarKnyht]

I am going to have to ask for an explanation for that too.

[Kolya]

It is a mind over matter sort of thing... you no longer mind, it no longer matters.

[Michael T]

I belive it is a reference to a roleplaying game that is fairly popular. Charecter ignore the wiegth of thier equipment because the controling player does not use the rule properly.

[Kolya]

Ding!

[Natasha]

Lost again...

[DarKnyht]

I understand, but only because at heart I am a computer geek.

[Kolya]

It is the only one I remember from those days.

[DarKnyht]

I tend to think that we are fairly insignificant in the eyes of our world. The planet has naturally heated and cooled multiple times without human intervention. History already records small occurrences of this in medieval times. Why now are we going to cause this issue, and if it was such a big issue as the politicians present why did they exempt countries from Kyoto?

I also wonder if it isn't a little egotistical to think that we can have that much of an impact on the environment. Plus, I don't believe that we can accurately predict the future of something (the weather) that we barely understand.

[Kolya]

Sure a nice big volcanic eruption can damage the environment and the climate. Yes climate is cyclical. But that does not mean it is immune to influence. Human activity, like a volcano, will affect the environment and the climate.

Kyoto is a baby step. In and of itself, it is pretty much worthless.

We do know the results of runaway greenhouse effect - and if computer models are not enough, go to Venus.

And it is not egotistical. Hunting and logging have caused many problems for humans and other species - land slides, extinction, and so on.

And if all of this is not a problem now (and some of it is), it will be a problem later when you have no more trees to log or no more fresh water to drink. Take care now, take care of the future.

[Natasha]

I think that the aliens take Kolya away and put someone who gives a shit!

[Ron Caliburn]

I think you need someone other than Koyla giving you english lessons.

[Natasha]

Oi, so bad?

I live and work with Kolya and the guys when we among English speakers...

[Ron Caliburn]

Oh, you were technically quite correct.

We just need to work on when it is and isn't okay to swear.

[Kolya]

Sorry about that.

Happens to be the formula for one of my favourite sayings.

"You've confused me for someone who ...."

[KonThaak]

As I've been told numerous times, the top three contributers to global warming right now are cattle (more specifically, the tons of gasses they produce almost daily), volcanic eruptions (which do a helluvalot of damage in a short amount of time, then sit idle for a while), and human pollution.

And cattle wouldn't even be a problem if not for humans, so as far as I'm concerned, chalk that up with human pollution, which means we hold the majority of contributions to the greenhouse effect.

And while we're at it, in the past, there have been a number of mass extinctions, where countless species and unimaginable numbers of creatures died almost overnight. There were a number of reasons for these mass extinctions; ice ages, sudden and violent climate changes due to in-falling meteorites or particularly violent eruptions, and so on. We are in the midst of another one...

...and we are the cause.

Logging in North America has gotten to be a lot less damaging that it once was. We've learned a great deal since the 30's and 40's... That doesn't mean we've reached a pinnacle of harmlessness in logging; we probably never will with the more conservative Republicans in office, since the greatest leaps and bounds in that field have come under moderates and liberals... The worst problem with logging is in the rain forests of South America, where they don't even bother to plant new trees behind them, and they gouge through areas faster than a certain infamous Pasadenian little old lady.

The worst part is that they're logging the rain forests at all... The North American forests are used to forest fires happening annually; the plants and animals up here bounce back, because they have to in order to survive. Down south in the rain forest, they haven't built up such resilience, because they don't have to deal with such things...and so there's a good chance that they will never recover from all of this.

So the only solution is for us to clean up our pollution problem up here, and stop the logging in South America...

Unfortunately, we rely far too much on lumber to cut out logging altogether; we just need to learn to be more respectful in how we cultivate the lumber we need.

[DarKnyht]

Let me restate my position. I am not saying the planet isn't warming, I just don't believe that it is a crisis like politicians are advertising. Like most things, once something is politicized, the facts no longer matter. If something doesn't agree with their agenda then it is fear or hate mongering even if it is the truth.

I think that in part we are seeing herd mentality. Most people don't bother to check the facts on global warming themselves, but instead listen to politicians and celebrities.

I also think that to a group of people, Global Warming and the movement around it has become almost like a cult. They no longer want to hear the facts because they are so caught up in trying to save Mother Earth.

[Kolya]

Welcome back KT.

[Kolya]

Let me restate my position. I am not saying the planet isn't warming, I just don't believe that it is a crisis like politicians are advertising. Like most things, once something is politicized, the facts no longer matter. If something doesn't agree with their agenda then it is fear or hate mongering even if it is the truth.

How politicalised is it? When was the last time you heard a hoarde of politicians making a big deal of it?

I think that in part we are seeing herd mentality. Most people don't bother to check the facts on global warming themselves, but instead listen to politicians and celebrities.

Global warming is a fact--whether or not it is happening is irrelevant--and if people do not take care now, it (will happen and it) will get out of control. And to get a taste of what that is like, go to Venus.

I also think that to a group of people, Global Warming and the movement around it has become almost like a cult. They no longer want to hear the facts because they are so caught up in trying to save Mother Earth.

This is not a new movement - been around for decades. They got the facts right. You use CFCs, you irresponsibly log forests, and so forth, then things are going to get bad. It is a cult not because they are ignoring the facts, it is a cult because the mainstream just does not care enough to do too much. And that means politicians do not car too much. So I doubt it is highly politicalised.

Although cutting CFCs a while back is giving the Earth's ozone a chance to heal itself. A prime example of changing human behaviour and the Earth recovering from the damage.

The planet can take care of itself, if humans stop destroying the ecological balances the planet needs to take care of itself. It is like taking a carpenter's hammer away and asking him to drive a nail... with what? his forehead?

Anyway, anymore and I will be repeating myself.

Do the right thing.

[DarKnyht]

Sorry I am referring to the American politicians, Koyla. There is a political party that is using it to push their political agenda.

One in particular made a movie asking us all not to pollute. The funny thing is that they found out that he doesn't practice what he preaches. His monthly electric bill was the price the average american pays in a year (and that was for only one of his homes), and instead of using public flights he runs private jets.

There is also the story this Thursday from France. The summary link is here, unfortunately the story seems to have disappeared quickly from US news sources.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_496642.html

I am not wanting to argue. I just don't believe that they really know what is going to happen that far into the future. I mean they barely can predict the weather one week in advance.

[Kolya]

like I said.

Do the right thing.

[KonThaak]

Predicting the weather is different from noting the reactions on the planet to our pollutants, and seeing where those patterns are heading. Weather predictions involve making educated guesses based on wind patterns, pressure readings, cloud accumulations (and the types of clouds that are accumulating), and so on, and so on, ad nauseum... Generally speaking, it isn't the insanely inaccurate meteorologists who're studying the effects of pollutants on the ozone and on the environment.

Non-politicized information is out there, if you know where to look. One can educate oneself on the subject quite well on non-politicized information.

And yes, Ralph Nader was a prick, if that's who you're talking about, but the Green Party does have its heart in the right place. (By the way, the Green Party spans more than just the US; so far as I know, it has representatives in official positions in Australia, Canada, and the UK; correct me if I'm wrong, guys.) And while yes, they are very highly politicized...they kinda have to be. They need funding from groups like Greenpeace in order to do any real good, and in order to get funding from groups like Greenpeace, they have to spout the "save the environment" bullshit buzz-lines and play along with the pointless things they do. (For those of you who don't know, most of Greenpeace is far more about screaming over nothing than actually getting any real progress in environmental balance done.)

I know you're not arguing; I'm not either. Just offering up what I know, letting you know that there are some of us who do recognize the difference between honestly, truly caring, and spouting and screaming and pretending to care.

[Ron Caliburn]

Natural cycle or man induced phenomena, climate change is comming. If we have any influence (and there is more than circumstantial evidence to supprot this) we need to make sure the transition to the next climate is as slow and gradual as possible.

The consequences of an abrubt transition are pretty frightening.