For Ron Caliburn (and any others like him)

Shang Li · Post by **Shang Li** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:34 pm

You asked once how I can advocate peacefull co-existance with demons, vampires, werebeasts, and anyother supernatural being, predator or not, that comes to me in peace. I had no explanation for you then, and fear that I do not have the words to make you understand. I will however borrow the words of another, in hopes that you will understand.

Two monks were washing their bowls in the river when they noticed a scorpion that was drowning. One monk immediately scooped it up and set it upon the bank. In the process he was stung. He went back to washing his bowl and again the scorpion fell in. The monk saved the scorpion and was again stung.

The other monk asked him, "Friend, why do you continue to save the scorpion when you know it's nature is to sting?"

"Because," the monk replied, "to save it is my nature."

That is the koan that my master taught me when I asked why we fight to protect even those that hate us.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:59 pm

And it's my nature to stomp the scorpion before some kid picks it up.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:26 am

Perhaps I misunderstood the question. I certainly misunderstood the answer. That scorpion did not come in peace; the monk came to it. Furthermore, this koan makes no sense in the context of what seems to be Ron's question.

The very statement "fight to protect" means one thing or another is being denied protection. If you are fighting to protect evil, you are fighting the wrong thing - there just is no other way to skin this cat.

I'm with Ron.

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:07 am

The parable explains the nature of things. Its the nature of the monk to save the drowning scorpion. Its the nature of the scorpion to sting the monk. They both must be true to their own nature. The relation of the monk and the scorpion need not mirror the relation between Li and "...demons, vampires, werebeasts, and anyother supernatural being, predator or not, that comes to me in peace." to explain his position.

It is simply his nature. Its Ron's nature to strike them down. Its the nature of some of these monsters to turn us into snackfood. In the end we have no choice but to be true to our own nature.

AdamaGeist · Post by **AdamaGeist** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:46 am

Actualy, you usualy hear that story in it's alternate form. of some beast about to swim over the river, and the scorpion hitches a ride. Half-way over, the scorpion stings the animal, and it asks, 'Why did you do that? Now we'll both die?' The scorpion replied 'I'm a scorpion. It's what I do.'

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:49 am

That came to mind too Adama. That's a good tale as well.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:19 pm

Let me rephrase.. it makes no sense to me.

Defending evil is wrong. Every time and in all kinds of weather.

If it is in your nature to defend evil, change your nature. Or remain a scorpion and die under boot..

Shang Li · Post by **Shang Li** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:27 pm

(sigh) It is in my nature save those who need saved regardless of their nature. On occasion I have saved penitants from the like of yourselves. Most often it is saving someone from a being who has no remorse, no sense of wrongdoing, or who simply revels in the acts.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:14 am

Shang Li wrote:On occasion I have saved penitants from the like of yourselves.

This is one of the most insulting self-righteous things ever said to me.

Ashikaga Hideoshi · Post by **Ashikaga Hideoshi** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:57 am

Koyla - is Celeste or Bearshaman evil? Will you deny that most hunters don't care and would try to kill them anyway? (I spent 15 years listening to that sanctimonious old man - he and i never saw eye to eye on such).

just playing devil's advocate, hoping you have answers for the arguments that i had no reponse to.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:47 am

Ashikaga Hideoshi wrote:Koyla - is Celeste or Bearshaman evil? Will you deny that most hunters don't care and would try to kill them anyway? (I spent 15 years listening to that sanctimonious old man - he and i never saw eye to eye on such).

just playing devil's advocate, hoping you have answers for the arguments that i had no reponse to.

No, I would not say that they are necessarily evil. From all I know, they at least try. Evil is a choice for them. For others, it may be in their nature. Ignorance may be bliss, but it is no excuse.

My personal situation is complicated and somewhat incoherent; have not had a lot of time to reflect on it, not that it is something I feel the need to do anyway. Perhaps I should. Meeting and working with Ron, for example, resulted in an extremely fast flight home. The problem is, the more I thought about it, the less I understood.

I feel the desire to destroy anything that predates on humans and their allies, but the world is very grey, not as black and white as some would have us believe. So... for now I just go with the flow.

That may be a convenient excuse. It is what it is. For now anyway...

Ashikaga Hideoshi · Post by **Ashikaga Hideoshi** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:39 pm

Tovarisch (if i may call you that - my russian associates say it is a sign of respect) it appears that you are in the same boat as I am when it comes to understanding the old fool and his ways (at least you didnt spend 15 years living and training with him to be confused by him). As for his philosophy - I can parrot the words when i chose but understand him no more than any of you.

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:43 pm

I think I get what he's saying, its just nto something you can really be taught.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:18 pm

Ashikaga Hideoshi, "tovarisch" is literally "comrade". We're not there yet. For now, Kolya is fine.

A trainer once told me that we all have to find our own paths. They may converge, diverge, and cross other paths, but that is normal. He also told me that the only obstacles we see are those when we take our eyes off of our goals.

The way I see it: harm innocent humans or their allies or provide sanctuary to those that harm innocent humans or their allies, then our paths are on a crash course for one another, whether seeking enlightenment or not, death in this lifetime will come early.