Old German Warhammer needs IDing.

[PeterSchnauss]

Anyone out there a medieval weapons expert?

A few weeks ago my grandfather Albert died and while going through some of his stored effects I came upon a steamer trunk full of his WW2 stuff. Inside it were pictures, letters, his old uniform and other personal items. The two odd things in the trunk were an old Luger pistol in a worn holster and what appears to be the headpiece of a medieval warhammer. It seems to be made of steel but with very tarnished, silver-plated striking surfaces (the hammer actually has a raised cross head and a 6 inch back spike). There aren't any visible makers marks upon it, so I have no idea as far as it's possible origins. Anyone out there know of anything similar?

My grandfather was part of the 5th Infantry Division in the war and was there when the allies liberated Dachau. He was deeply affected by his war experiences and would only on very rare occasions tell any war stories.

[Grace]

Sounds like something that would be right up Gotham Witches alley.

[Ron Caliburn]

The specifics, no. Other than the silver on the nasty end it sounds like it was intended to be a functional rather than ornamental weapon, which of course means that the designer or user expected the silver to have an effect that normal iron or steel would not.

Of course that presupposes that the silver coating on the rest of the weapon and decorations with it did not wind up wearing off.

In application, when it comes to vampires, you want a piercing weapon as the stake though the chest is the only way to guarantee the kill. Something blunt like this would be more useful against life forms with less independence from conventional anatomy and wounding, like a werebeast.

[PeterSchnauss]

I am digging a little deeper into my grampa's past. I found a list of some of his old warbuddies and a few very old (post war/state side) correspondences with some of his friends. One letter actually mentions the warhammer, as well as a fire and them chasing someone they nicknamed 'Frankenstein'.

Most curious, my gramps seems to have been more than just a retired, thrice married, Dearborn Rouge plant maintence manager.

Another interesting thing I just discovered, he spoke German.

I'm going to see if any of these ex-army buddies are still alive.

[Gotham Witch]

What Ron said.

War hammers are late medieval to Renaissance weapons for the most part, directly as a response to plate mail. As noted, they probably wouldn't be useful on something like a vampire, but definitely so against something like a lycanthrope.

It'll be interesting to see what comes up.

[PeterSchnauss]

So far dead ends. I've gotten a few leads from the internet, but out of the 3 possible leads all thusfar have been deceased. I have 3 or 4 more names, but I'll have to try tomorrow. Off to work.

Oh btw I'm keeping the Luger. I got some bullets for it this afternoon.

[Tms3]

I know you said you did not find a makers mark on the hammer, and that in its self is strange. also the sliver plating. Tell me are there any Inscriptions at all? could be art work, or Runes. About how heavy is it.

If you happen to be near any of the spell Arcanist such as my self. you might have one of us check it out. My grand father worked for OSS in the war and was resposable for helping to find and nutrize there more ummm esoteric experiments. And not even I know all he found and all he captured or destoryed form the enemy. a lot of it is still Classified. Makes me wonder about what the Nazi Acanists where up to. but then maybe I would rather not know

[PeterSchnauss]

I know you said you did not find a makers mark on the hammer, and that in its self is strange. also the sliver plating. Tell me are there any Inscriptions at all? could be art work, or Runes. About how heavy is it.

If you happen to be near any of the spell Arcanist such as my self. you might have one of us check it out. My grand father worked for OSS in the war and was resposable for helping to find and nutrize there more ummm esoteric experiments. And not even I know all he found and all he captured or destoryed form the enemy. a lot of it is still Classified. Makes me wonder about what the Nazi Acanists where up to. but then maybe I would rather not know

I'd say the hammerhead weighs around two pounds.

First off I took some steel wool and 3 in 1 oil and gave the hammer head a good cleaning. Nope no markings at all...nada. Strange. Even stranger I actually mounted the hammerhead on an old piece of hockey stick and started swinging it around the living room while jamming loud metal music like a mad fool. Sigh...yeah I fucked up and put a huge divit in the front door when it slipped out of my hand. Note to self....make a lanyard.

Anyway it didn't seem magical or anything. It looks very similar to THIS, but with a hockey stick handle.

But the really big news I just found out is, my grandfather lied to me about being at Dachau. I just got off the phone with an old warbuddy of his and he told me they never liberated any concentration camps, but they apparantly came upon things he described as being much worse. I wasn't able to get too much from his mad ramblings that included such fanciful things as Polish war bears, Indian Sihk warriors and bloodthirsty Ghurka knife fighters going toe to toe with the Nazi's at Monte Cassino. He's very hard of hearing, so I'm going to have to visit him in person or write a letter.

Anyway going to do some Googling.

[Tms3]

The hammer is Germanic. if its not a more modern knok off form the late middle ages. porbly the late 14 or early 1500s, it is not a pagan Warhammer, it is far to modern for that. It looks like it could be what was known as a horseman's hammer. GW was right. it was made to be able to deal with men in heavy plate armor. it fell out of use as guns got better and where able to more reliably pierce plat armor

[Gotham Witch]

The pick on the end and head suggest late Middle Ages to early Renaissance style, used to increase its versatility. They start going out of vague by the 1500s - ie, the same time plate armor does. So in all likelihood, it's about 400-500 years old.

Curiouser and curiouser this gets.

[Ron Caliburn]

Well the special business end of this was definitely not set up for crunching armor, that is for sure. Sounds to me like this one was for busting skulls and breaking bones, with the armor penetrating capabilities just a back up in case it had to be used on something more conventional.

[PeterSchnauss]

Going to Elyria Ohio tomorrow to talk to Ed Stanke, my gramps warbuddy.

Will update later.

[RAVEN]

I do not know much about medieval weaponry, but it isn't surprising at all to find a Luger in your grandfather's chest. Soldiers in all of the armies which fought in Europe during WWII collected trophies. Huge fortunes vanished during the Nazis' systematic looting of Central Europe. Although officially condoned by all armies, it happened a lot. A few allied soldiers were even executed for looted. Nonetheless, plenty of American and Canadian soldiers came home with German pistols and SS daggers as personal prizes. The warhammer head was probably another such prize which your grandfather took from an enemy combatant, either German or Italian, and the enemy in turn had looted it from someone else. It is the silver bits which made the item worth looting in the first place.

On the other hand, you seem to feel strongly that something is curious about this particular piece. Follow your intuition, my friend. It might not lead you where you want to go, but the journey will be interesting. Also, clean that Luger before you fire it lest it might explode in your hands.

[Ron Caliburn]

Also, are you sure it's a Luger? Generally it had been phased out in favor of the visually similar Walther P38 by WWII.

[PeterSchnauss]

Sorry been forgetful and busy.

My visit with Old Man Stanke didn't come to much.
We met for lunch at McDonald's in Elyria, Ohio.

From what he said my grandfather was part of a unit that worked it's way up to an old mountain top monastery (Monte Cassino). There was some truly brutal fighting and my grandfather served valiantly (he received a Silver Star) and came back down the hill with what Stanke said a far off stare. Stanke was out of the fight with broken left wrist from standing too close to an artillery piece, so he wasn't an eye witness.
According to Stanke my grandfather told him that it was something out of a nightmare...human experiments and that my grandfather was part of a detail who put them out of their misery.

There was a lot of SS around and some of them were involved with Nazi occult groups. Big wigs from the amount of elite SS I would have to assume.

The Luger came of an elderly Nazi civilian who was up there in the fort...from what I've delved it's WW1 vintage. The warhammer came from the same 'black-hearted kraut son of a bitch' (Stanke's words not mine).

There was room to room fighting and it was quite bloody. A unit of Gurkha's was with my grandfather, Stanke said there were beheadings as well as flamethrower work before the tide could be turned.

All quite interesting. I'm definitely starting to become interested in WW2 history.

Anyway Ed is kinda senile and definitely lonely, so a lot of his stories I had to take with a grain of McNugget.

[PeterSchnauss]

Oh the Luger shoots great...just pulls a bit low and to the left at further range. Up to 30 feet though it shoots spot on.

[Grace]

Oh the Luger shoots great...just pulls a bit low and to the left at further range. Up to 30 feet though it shoots spot on.

It's just as likely that you're squeezing your grip as you pull the trigger, which is the most common cause for pistol shots going low and to the left.

The number one factor in firearm accuracy is the shooter, followed by the firearm followed by environment. The blame for poor accuracy is often (falsely) attributed to the environment, the firearm and finally (maybe) the shooter.

[PeterSchnauss]

Oh the Luger shoots great...just pulls a bit low and to the left at further range. Up to 30 feet though it shoots spot on.

It's just as likely that you're squeezing your grip as you pull the trigger, which is the most common cause for pistol shots going low and to the left.

The number one factor in firearm accuracy is the shooter, followed by the firearm followed by environment. The blame for poor accuracy is often (falsely) attributed to the environment, the firearm and finally (maybe) the shooter.

Well I'm not what anyone would call a pistolero. I think I was the weak link...I'm no Dirty Harry...but I am kinda dirty, but not that hairy, that's why I shaved my head. Nothing lamer than a metalhead with a skullet.

I bought me a box of 50 Federal 9mm ammo up at Walmart and went to an outdoor range over the weekend. It was brutally hot and because of that I might have been in kind of a hurry. Plus my lady was at home making her famous white chili.

It's an undocumented firearm, I wonder what I should do about that?

I was happy with my groupings overall.

[Ron Caliburn]

Peter, I think you and TMS3 should have a talk. He's said that he had dealt with some pretty occult minded Nazis in the past and his family was doing much the same back in the war.

[PeterSchnauss]

TMS3...you out there?

Can ye giveth me some guidance?

[Gotham Witch]

As I noted before in another thread, I've had some dealings with Nazi occult (very recent ones at that). It's become somewhat of a research area of mine lately - you would be surprised how many occult texts are im Deutsch.