The Origins of Vampires

[GhostSpider]

Kill them. Kill them all. That is the only thing one should discuss when talking about the blood-suckers.

[Tms3]

I really don't recall any one saying we should not. historic descution as to where the came form can do little harm and may do some good

[Celeste Darken]

Kill them. Kill them all. That is the only thing one should discuss when talking about the blood-suckers.

Including, but not limited to, vampire bats, mosquitoes, ticks, and anything else a body can justify wedging into that category as well, I suppose?

[Gotham Witch]

Tax collectors and lawyers included?

I confess I'm still perplexed someone reportedly re-deceased is still 'present'. Barring a ghost with a penchant for forum surfing, I assume there's a mystery afoot?

[Grace]

Is it possible, do you think, to turn people into vampires? Without first having an existing vampire bite them first? There had to be a first one, right?

If so, how would one go about such a thing?

You seem a little bit sensative about the subject of slaying vampires, Celeste Darken. Are you a vampire like the previous holder of that account? Papa says you're just a punk and that Celeste Darken is dead.

But vampires are already dead so of course that would be true. He says he killed her but from the account of the story he posted, it seems like he paralyzed her prior to corporeal destruction first.

Miss Solstice is supposed to be some sort of reincarnation of the original Celeste Darken but it seems more likely to me that she is some sort of dream entity or construct. I can't say for certain, I've never met her. I'm going off of her appearance in this world as posted on this forum.

We know even less about you, aside from the fact that you use an old account and maintain the old accounts color.

-Cynthia

[Tms3]

There are rumored to be some dark Ritual for becoming a vampire. I dont know much about them. all I have seen is 3rd or 4th hand reports

[Hannah]

TMS,

You have my curiosity on that one. Do you have any details? I'm not interesting in known how to do it, but rather to see if I can recognize an attempt.

Hannah

[Tms3]

From some of my sources its like the ritual of making a pact. you know like the old pact witch that made a deal with evil to get there power. see that the problem with vampires the first one has to be willing to make a deal with evil for power. I have to wonder if some one whom would do that was ever really human to begin with. There are some hints that there are some ways to become a vampire as a form of divine punishment. or that the right of excommunication might have that effect. unable to enter into heaven or hell doomed to walk the earth in tell the day of judgment. I.E Vlad the impaler

[Hannah]

Nothing about trying to turn someone unwilling into a vampire, without having a vampire to use?


Hannah

[Tms3]

The first vampire is always willing or a case where a person was excuminacated (maybe). Those that the First one turns may or may not be willing.... but the first vampire what some may call a master vampire he or she must be willing

[Grace]

I think it might be possible, under certain definitions.

The first definition that matters is what exactly, is a vampire?

Lore suggests that there are actually many different and perhaps unrelated creatures that are called vampires. In the broadest terms, a vampire is a type of undead that must consume blood.

Creating undead is already known to be possible. There are necromatic rituals to create both zombies and mummies. Existing magic can often be modified to fill new needs. So creating a form of undead that drinks blood should be a possible derivative of one or both of those two spells.

But would the result really be considered a vampire?

It seems to be generally accepted on these boards that a vampire has a few other features as well. Such as a vulnerability to sunlight, silver, wood, holy water, garlic and similar folkloric countermeasures. Vampires have also been attributed with super human strength, speed, endurance, senses and regenerative abilities.

Could such a creature be created?

Obviously.

But how?

My intuition tells me that there may be more than one way to arrive at the same result. My experience with magic suggests that willingness in the subject may only be a factor in certain methods.

-Cynthia

[Gotham Witch]

There's also been at least one case where some unscrupulous mages backed by a bio-pharmaceutical company tried to engineer a biological vampirism - the Chupathingies as Serpens described them. They were less vampire and more... clawed ugly thing though, but the parasitic propagation at least partially magical nature of the contagion were similar.

[Cybermancer]

You know, theoritically speaking, it would be possible to create a virus that could 'rewrite' host human DNA to create a create that shared many traits attributed to vampires.

-Desire and ability to draw substanance from blood
-Allergy to garlic, sunlight, silver and wood
-Enhanced immune and regenerative abilities
-Enhanced physical capabilities
-Enhanced senses
-Spread by exchange of bodily fluids (perhaps even limited to saliva introduced directly into the blood stream)
-Fangs

There would even be a period of time where the body would probably go into a coma while these changes were introduced into the host.

I'm not an expert on magic by any means but it seems reasonable and possible that such a virus could be combined with enchantments, not unlike those that Cynthia already mentioned.

[Nemesis]

You know, theoritically speaking, it would be possible to create a virus that could 'rewrite' host human DNA to create a create that shared many traits attributed to vampires.

*Snip*
-Fangs

*Snip*

I think having fangs would be cool.

-Cynthia

[Hannah]

Cynthia, sweetie,

You could probably make it work for you too.

Hannah

[Nemesis]

I suppose I could try buying faksies and try it out.

-Cynthia

[Tms3]

There are many types of vampers in folk lore in fact the Excumincated man becoming a vampire may not be the same as the one I described earlier. and getting humans to draw nourishment form blood is not that hard at all, humans can quit will. the hard part would be getting past the Psychological blocks. in fact there are native tribes that make in arctic regions that make a soup form the blood of the animals they hunt. it is part of how they can serve in there evierments

[Ron Caliburn]

There is also Renfield's Syndrome, however the case we are curious about seems to be a deliberate attempt to produce a vampire that is a servant to a mortal power.

[Gotham Witch]

I have in the past ran into so-called 'Renfields' who thought I looked delicious. Fortunately, I only needed to call the police rather than wave a crucifix in their face to get them away - though I may have slapped one to get him to back off.

If only real vampires were so courteous

[Clarity]

_____Hi, Cynthia! I think you look pretty without vampire teeth. What would you want with vampire teeth, anyway? Vampires are mean and cruel and dark and creepy.
_____P.S. Did those “Renfield” men think you looked delicious because you’re a good witch, Miss Got? Remember, only bad witches are ugly.

[Gotham Witch]

I think it's because I looked Gloomy and they thought I was one of them. I think I used to run into them because I was spending time in the wrong bars.

[Nemesis]

Hi Clarity!

Thank for saying I'm pretty. I think you're pretty too.

I just think fangs would be neat but maybe you're right and I'm okay without them.

-Cynthia

[Clarity]

_____You’re welcome, and thank you, too, Cynthia.
_____P.S. You were right about letting Hannah sleep on Easter.

[Grace]

P.S. You were right about letting Hannah sleep on Easter.

?

[Clarity]

_____She was asleep when the fairy Easter Bunnies showed up to look around your garden. I tried to wake Hannah up because at first I thought the lights were my Lights, but Cynthia said we should let her sleep. We watched the lights turn into fairy bunnies. They wandered the garden for a while. I tried to invite one in for carrots and cake, but she smiled and shook her head, no.
_____P.S. Is that what you were wondering about, Miss Nemesis?
_____P.S. again. Gruagach wasn’t there.

[Grace]

Thank you Miss Grace, that was very informative.

Before you get any ideas Ron, I better not see you in my garden setting snares.

[The_Unicorn]

One of the oldest legends of Vampires that I know of goes back to ancient hebrews.
[snip]
Lets deconstruct this some..

OK, first let's start by explaining that this is hoopla made up in the Middle Ages. Lilith has nothing to do with ACTUAL Hebrew/Jewish myths and belief.
There was a book medieval called 'the Alphabet of Ben Sira' which contained the fictional story of Lilith. it's popularity made her a part of Jewish folklore.
Not to say that Lilith didn't exist, she just wasn't Jewish...

[Last Moon]

There are some who believe that the Vampire and the therian share a common origin point back in antiquity. While this is unproven, a number of common traits (shape shifting into animal forms, vulnerability to silver, predation on humans, association with the night) exist indicating a possible relationship.

[Nemesis]

One of the oldest legends of Vampires that I know of goes back to ancient hebrews.
[snip]
Lets deconstruct this some..

OK, first let's start by explaining that this is hoopla made up in the Middle Ages. Lilith has nothing to do with ACTUAL Hebrew/Jewish myths and belief.
There was a book medieval called 'the Alphabet of Ben Sira' which contained the fictional story of Lilith. it's popularity made her a part of Jewish folklore.
Not to say that Lilith didn't exist, she just wasn't Jewish...

Lilith first appears in Hebrew myths and belief in the Book of Isaiah. The term appears in a list of animals and appears to be both singular and plural. This makes sense given that Isaiah was penned during and shortly after the Babylonian exile (a good 1400-1600 years before The Alphabet of Ben Sira).

This is relevant because of the Babylonian lilitu who also appear during that period of time. The lilitu are also referred to as singular and plural.

There are other, disputed connections to Lilith in the area in antiquity. Some see her the Epic of Gilgamesh though others dispute that.

She's also mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls. And later her name appears Jewish Occult bowls between 4th to 6th century CE.

It isn't until The Alphabet of Ben Sira, as mentioned above, that the story of Lilith being Adam's first wife appears in print form. It is unknown if the story existed as an older, oral tale before then.

It is likely that 'Lilith' is only her modern name. A name and a myth that has be been distorted over time. As with all myths, it has been added to over time. She has apparently been adopted into many different cultures and religions over time, not just the Hebrews. Though she does seem to belong to that part of the world.

I find it odd that anyone would consider her "Jewish"... or not. In order to fit that description, she would first have to be human. I actually find adorabilly's deconstruction to be quite good. She was most likely a being of substantial power and a progenitor of vampires.

I'm not about to ask her, however. Her answers are always very costly.

[The_Unicorn]

Lilith first appears in Hebrew myths and belief in the Book of Isaiah. The term appears in a list of animals and appears to be both singular and plural.

No, the screech owl is listed in the book of Isaiah. Deliberate mistranslations might call them something else, but they are still just screech owls.

She's also mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Once, listed with a bunch of demons, which doesn't make her Jewish.
(She's certainly a Babylonian figure)

And late her name appears Jewish Occult bowls between 4th to 6th century CE.

CE is not a date.Sorry just a pet peeve. There is nothing in 1AD that makes it the start of the "common era" unless you think the birth of Christ is extremely important. And if you (general you not specific/personal you)think that, then why not use the Gregorian calendar?

I find it odd that anyone would consider her "Jewish"...

She isn't.