How Prepared Are We - Cults & Devil Worship

[Holister]

I know this is a touchy matter that crosses a fine between the occult and religion. Many time have we at one time or another had to deal with cultists.

How do we deal with this individuals?

Looking for personal encounters and experiences with various cults, psychology, the heirarchy and beliefs of various cults, strategy on dealing with cults, how to break their influences over their followers, and how to deprogram cultists afterwards.

[GhostSpider]

I don't bother with deprogramming. A quick knife thrust and its all over.

[Grace]

I don't bother with deprogramming. A quick knife thrust and its all over.

QFT.

[GhostSpider]

QFT?

[Grace]

Quoted For Truth.

[skeptic]

I don't bother with deprogramming. A quick knife thrust and its all over.

You don't belong here.
Your blatant disregard for human life makes me sick.
Precisely what are you fighting for?

[Shang Li]

I suppose, Mr. Skeptic, that you have tried to negotiate with a cultist while they are shooting at you?

I suppose that you judge others according to your own experience and therefore can talk cultists into surrendering while you keep them from sacrificing a virgin to a ritual that may or may not work.

Some of us share our pain, others do not, but the majority of us bear the burden of blood on our hands and the question of "was there another way?". We sleep poorly, and deal with the accusing faces in our dreams so that others may live a simple life, free of such burdens.

Those human lives that I have ended burden my concience, a burden that I have willingly taken up to bear that the innocent may remain so.

I walk through the city and watch people like you ignore those who are starving to death day by day right before them, as people like you ignore the violence, ignore the crime and ignore the misery and death all around them - and you have the unmitigated gall to condemn a hunter for having to make hard choices? I see more "blatant disregard for human life" every day on the streets than I have seen in any of the hunters on these boards.

[Cessiel]

Mr. Li,

Pardon my question for I am but new here so I do not know all the complicated inpersonal relationships that exist here.

But do you know Sebastian so well that you can say he ignores poverty and suffering? Do you know he does not work at a soup kitchen? Do you know that he turns a blind eye to the pain and injury of others?

I don't bother with deprogramming. A quick knife thrust and its all over.

Is it so hard to see anything in this statement that someone might morally object to? Mr. GhostSpider is not saying that he kills cultists in the heat of battle. He is saying that he does not bother to deprogram (help) them. He kills them and is done with the matter.

Would a man who is indifferent to the suffering of others object to this view?

Was your verbal chastisement an attempt to share wisdom and help others on the road towards enlightenment?

[Shang Li]

Men like Ghostspider, Mr. Caliburn, Mr. Holister, and the others here rarely become involved in a cult at such a time as de-programming can do any good.
I have seen the look in these men's eyes, some I have watched toss in their sleep and cry out as the memories come. I cannot stand by and have such an untruth stand unopposed when I know it to be false.

If you want a "blatant disregard for human life" start by looking around at the streets of your cities.
The average person on the street kills heartlessly, without concern, with no other weapon than apathy.

If any one of us actually had "a blatant disregard for human life", would we be risking our lives fighting murderous madmen to try to save a person who we do not know, or even expect to see again?

As for knowing Mr. Sebastion that well, I do not. His statement instantly made clear however that he does not take action to back his rhetoric. A man of action would, unfortunately bear much the same burden, and would not re-open wounds barely healed if at all.

[skeptic]

I'll keep it brief for you Shang, as I have no real desire to interact with such presumption.

If a cultist is shooting at me, then the deprogramming hasn't begun.
Try again.

I walk through the city and watch people like you ignore those who are starving to death day by day right before them, as people like you ignore the violence, ignore the crime and ignore the misery and death all around them

Don't presume you know me.

- and you have the unmitigated gall to condemn a hunter for having to make hard choices?

Except that murder isn't a hard choice.
It's one of the easiest ones.

Those human lives that I have ended burden my concience, a burden that I have willingly taken up to bear that the innocent may remain so.

Good for you?
You think you're the better man?
You think you have a right to make shit up about me and lecture like you know me?

Ghostspider admitted to murder, instead of burdening himself with the years of patience and persistence required to help with life after cult.
Or at least allowing someone else who does have the patience and persistence to help.

As for knowing Mr. Sebastion that well, I do not.

You clearly don't know me at all.
Kindly, don't speak to me or about me anymore Shang.

[Cessiel]

Many pardons, master Li. Your wisdom is greater than mine and clearly you are further along the path of enlightenment. For this humble soul could never have divined:

His statement instantly made clear however that he does not take action to back his rhetoric.

from,

You don't belong here.
Your blatant disregard for human life makes me sick.
Precisely what are you fighting for?

Truly I am humbled before you.

[Kolya]

Practically nothing has changed in the year+ I've been gone.

Blind defense, mindless subject changing.

Well done, people.

[Kolya]

Men like Ghostspider, Mr. Caliburn, Mr. Holister, and the others here rarely become involved in a cult at such a time as de-programming can do any good.

I remember you differently, Shang Li.

But whatever the case is, you have no idea the pains and troubles we went through to bust that cult without hurting the cultists so that they could have an opportunity that GS would just as soon preclude with a swift and permanent solution.

[Shang Li]

Koyla, you know better than most how difficult it is to spare a cultists life without losing your own while breaking up their rituals. While I wish that such time for planning were the norm, in my experince a hunter more often has hours at best to call re-enforcements, plan the attack, and get the victim to safety.

Unfortunately, from my experience cultists fight back, and retaliate with a fanatical resolve that takes away any choices other than death or permanent maiming once the attack has begun. How do you spare the life of a man who will drive himself forward onto your blade in a vain hope to take you to the grave with him?

[Hannah]

I just want to point out something.

I grew up in a cult. So did my father, my mother and everyone in the world I was related to or considered a friend before some of you came to rescue me.

Other than my father, none of you have more experience with cults than me.

There are two times that my father has faced of with a cult since he came to these boards - well two times that he wrote about. Once with Kolya and once when a whole bunch of you came to rescue me.

Each time my father made it a goal to do as little harm as possible to the cultists.

My father who was a victim of a cult. My father who had the love of his life taken by a cult. My father who had his child stolen by a cult. My father who had more reason to hate cults than any six of you combined . . . always tried to spare the cultists.

Think about that.

[GhostSpider]

First of all, I'd like to point out that the only cults i've dealt with have been demon worshippers. Second, for many years I traveled with a psychic who could see into these people minds, and see if there was any hope for redemption. 99.9% were beyond that. Third, we never had the resources or the contacts for deprogramming. Had we turned these people over to the authorities (many of them had contacts and friends within said authorities), they would not have dealt with them in the appropriate manner.

Finally, many of these cultists had willingly turned from the light, and sacrificed good men and women to horrible beasts, all so that they could increase their own power, wealth, and lifespans. They weren't worthy of a second chance.

So yes, I killed them. Killed many of them as they begged for their lives.

Did i enjoy it? Of course not. Would I do it differently today? Maybe. Do I care how any of you judge me? Not really.

[Grace]

I just want to point out something.

I grew up in a cult. So did my father, my mother and everyone in the world I was related to or considered a friend before some of you came to rescue me.

Other than my father, none of you have more experience with cults than me.

There are two times that my father has faced of with a cult since he came to these boards - well two times that he wrote about. Once with Kolya and once when a whole bunch of you came to rescue me.

Each time my father made it a goal to do as little harm as possible to the cultists.

My father who was a victim of a cult. My father who had the love of his life taken by a cult. My father who had his child stolen by a cult. My father who had more reason to hate cults than any six of you combined . . . always tried to spare the cultists.

Think about that.

So the kitten has claws.

I could wax poetic about the loss of innocence here. But the sad truth is she may need them before this is all done.

Things are weird down here in the Blight, Hannah. I'm putting everything I ever learned with my Da along with my own experience to use. Others are starting to come aboard as well.

Something has changed since Saturday night. I can't really explain it yet so I'm not going to try. Just know that this is far from over.

And I don't like to lose.

[skeptic]

They weren't worthy of a second chance.

Too bad the same wasn't said about you.

I'm going to wrap up my obligations here and then not come back.
If this is all that's left of this place, then there's no point.

[GhostSpider]

Perhaps you should go, if you judge the many by the actions of one.

[Grace]

Sebastian,

GhostSpider,

Neither of you are being productive at the moment.

If after your obligations have been wrapped up, you decide to move on, Sebastian, I for one would miss the interaction.

[skeptic]

I'm not committing suicide, Nemesis.

[Shang Li]

Indeed, child he has always tried to let the cultists live - one of the reasons I respect him so much. ask him child, about the dreams, about the ones he couldn't save, about the ones he had to kill - the ones he does not talk about.

There is a great difference between a lack of hesitation and remorse, and being a cold hearted murderer.

Unfortunately, I have no advise to a hunter engaging with cultists which both helps him and the cultists come out alive.

When I have to choose between the life of a cultist and the life of an innocent, the cultist dies, likewise when forced to choose between the cultist's life and my own. As long as a hunter lives, he is free to follow my advice or not, as his own concience and morals dictate.

Too bad the same wasn't said about you.

It was, and by many. Yet the same man who you condemn as a monster has helped many members, myself included out of some very tight scrapes.

[skeptic]

Too bad the same wasn't said about you.

It was, and by many. Yet the same man who you condemn as a monster has helped many members, myself included out of some very tight scrapes.

If it was said by many, then it should be no problem for you to quote two people who said it and attempted to make good on it.
I offer a deal.
You do that, and I'll never show my face around here again.
You fail to do that, and you never show your face around here again.
Deal?

And just to be perfectly clear for you since you apparently don't get it, I haven't condemned shit.
All I've pointed out is a common pattern of behaviour.

And asked you not to speak to or about me, yet you persist.
Do the decent thing, Shang.

[Clarity]

_____Hi again, Mr. Ben. I wish I knew the right answer to your question, but I can’t find one. Mr. Shang and Mr. Skeptic and Mr. Ghost talked good points, and I’m getting confused because I want to do the right thing, but each time one person gives an answer, somebody else gets mad. That can’t be right, can it?
_____P.S. Mr. Ben, is it okay if I just say, “I’ll do my best?”
_____P.S., again. That feels like a right answer, but I don’t know how or why.
_____P.S., again. Again. I’ve never met a cultist.

[cab312]

You never met Hannah, Clarity?

[Hannah]

Hi C,

You've met a cultist. Well an ex-cultist anyway - me.

Speaking as a former cultist I gotta say that there is a big detail a lot of the folks here are missing. Most of the people on the inside actually don't really know what they are involved with.

Most of them think that they are protecting their little piece of paradise and that the outsiders are the evil invaders. That is why they seem so suicidal - how else would you fight if you knew you were the only line of defence between an evil monster and your kids?

We know psychics aren't perfect - if they were this place wouldn't exist because the world would know about and be prepared for things like monsters.

I hope the folks think about that the next time they go bust up a cult and take no prisoners. A few years ago, those people in the cult could have been me or my mom.

[Clarity]

_____Of course I have, Mr. Mack. Wait . . . Hannah was a cultist, wasn’t she? You were a cultist weren’t you, Hannah?
_____P.S. If all the cultists in the world were like you, Hannah, we’d be fine.
_____P.S., again. I like that answer better than my first.
_____P.S., again, again. Is it okay to change my answer, Mr. Ben?

[Kolya]

_____P.S. If all the cultists in the world were like you, Hannah, we’d be fine.

You have to understand Clarity that the reason you think so is that Hannah has properly been deprogrammed (at least well on her way) rather than slaughtered on site as some here advocate.

[Holister]

I believe some valid points have been made here on both sides.

There are innocents folk that have been duped in by these cults. They want out, they just do not know what to do.

There are also extremists out there, as mentioned, who would easily die for their twisted ideals.

The main question is how do we help those who want it without getting snuffed by those who don't?

And I do not accept or believe in the "Kill them all and let their god sort em' out." philosophy.

[Kolya]

Careful planning and precise execution of the plan. And the ability to accomplish the mission anyway when (not if) the plan goes to hell.