What is the significance of these books?

[Willie Long]

*De Occulta Philosophia
*Magia Natralis et Innaturalis
*Mutus Liber

My target ordered these from a rare books dealer in ... a major U.S. city. Given the recent attacks on Society members, I wondered what value he'd find in them.

[Bert_the_Turtle]

Well, the titles are all in latin. Not knowing much about that area of the occult, my gut reaction is that's unusual. I didn't think the Romans dealt much with magic. I'd more expect them to be titled in a Celt language or in Egyptian or Norse or something.

[Shadowstalker]

Latin is not a language I read but those titles look familer in a worrying sort of way, when the Dr. or Prof. get back I'll ask them till then be carful.

[Bert_the_Turtle]

I took a year of Latin back in Highschool. I can read a tiny bit of it but I can recognize it on sight.

[Shadowstalker]

Not doubting your statement of the the language its writen in just stateing it looked like something I had seen before.

[Willie Long]

...till then be carful.

Word.

***
Those titles almost look like English:

*The Occult Philosophy
*Magic Natural and Unnatural

The last one... maybe:
*Change Book?

[Willie Long]

We nabbed our target this morning. I asked him about the books, and he shrugged, said it was just for the money.

He was lying; wish I knew why.

[KonThaak]

*De Occulta Philosophia
*Magia Natralis et Innaturalis
*Mutus Liber

You're close... "From Occult Philosophy", "Natural and Unnatural Magic", and...I would probably translate that as "Changing Book", but I'm pretty sure that your translation is closer to what the Latin actually says ("Change Book")... I'm just not sure what that would mean.

My guess: Books about different forms of magic. Someone, either your target or someone paying your target, really wants to learn a great deal of really old magic. More peoples than just the Romans spoke in Latin, and many were the peoples who used magic back in the day... I'd need to know more about the books before I could tell you anything more than that, though.

[Bert_the_Turtle]

Well, my point was more that the Romans were pretty big in shutting down religions and practices they didn't like. So it wouldn't make a lot of sense to write down things they might disagree with in a language anyone literate in that Periods version of English could read.

Mutus Liber would be, according to my old English/Latin Dictionary, "Mute/Dumb Speechless/Silent/Still/Noiseless Book"

Muto Mutare Mutavi Mutavus would be "To Change, Shift; to alter; to exchange" etc.

[KonThaak]

Ah, right... It's been a while. Forgot that a word ending in "-us" really wouldn't be any form of a verb...

As for the Romans...nobody knows their tendency to destroy first and ask questions later better than me. It was my ancestors (both by blood and by spirituality) who suffered greatly at their hands... Nevertheless, depending on who was ruling, and how different the religious practices of the locals was, many practices thrived under the proverbial Roman thumb. While the man himself did many terrible and stupid things, Octavian/Augustus Caesar was the first emperor of Rome, and conquered and held more territory than any emperor after or any ruler before. He did it by allowing the peoples he conquered to keep their ways of life, to keep their local rulers, and swear fealty to Rome.

The crimes he committed were too great for me to give him any great amount of credit, but I do credit him for that. It's a shame the way many people suffered under the rule of subsequent (and previous) rulers...

[AdamaGeist]

Latin was THE secret language of Europe, from after the fall of Rome, and the rise of the Catholic Church.

Basicaly, after Rome fell, only priests and the most learned men knew Latin. It allowed the church to controll the people easily, because all the bibles were writen in Latin, and the common man was never able to read it...

As an extention, many occult books of that age were written and named in Latin as well. Only people versed in Latin could understand what the books realy were, and thus it allowed many an occultist to hide their secret texts among other books writen in foreign languages. Mixed among greek, arabic, and other obscure texts, one couldn't tell a history of Plato from a book of magical secrets.

Just because the books are writen in latin does not mean they date back to Rome.

[Willie Long]

Google is my bitch, yo.

They in Latin 'cause they were written in the 1600's. Found 'em in the Vatican's Index of Forbidden Books.

The Church kept that shit locked away until Napolean came around and jacked it, sent it back to France. After the war the Vatican got most of it back, and the French kept the rest.

Until the museum sold it, about 27 years ago.

*De Occulta Philosophia was a broad look at the occult.
*Magia Naturalis et Innaturalis detailed bilateral pacts with the Devil.
*Mutus Liber was a picture book about alchemy. (Bert nailed that one.)

Someone, either your target or someone paying your target, really wants to learn a great deal of really old magic.

He was originally arrested on charges of forgery and check fraud. Now to find out what he forged, and who he wrote checks to.

[Bert_the_Turtle]

My apologies to KT. I'm only an armchair historian about Rome.

[Ron Caliburn]

Meh, it's all greek to me.

[KonThaak]

*smacks Ron for a pun so bad even I wouldn't touch it XD*

Hey, no problem, Bert. I had forgotten what Adama mentioned, too, or at least, it hadn't occurred to me.

[Bert_the_Turtle]

Hey! That's one of my favorite puns! Its not so bad that you gotta be, pun-ished for using it.

[Shadowstalker]

I think we have a few pun punchy hunters here and it may just get worse.

[KonThaak]

Ooh, Bert, that was a good one. Lemme write that down with my ball-point pun! Err, pen.

[Bert_the_Turtle]

Well you know what they say KT,

The Pun is mightier than the Sword.

[Ron Caliburn]

If only we could fight demons with bad humour. One punch line and they'd be down for the count.

[KonThaak]

If that were the case, both my father and my father-in-law would have to be the most well-protected innocents out there. I fear for the world if they were ever locked into a room for any length of time... They wouldn't kill each other, as some in-laws might; instead, my money's on that they would absorb the worst, tackiest, and most painful parts of each others' senses of humor, and combine to make a more deadly sense of humor than the world is ready for.

As it is, either of them currently make my sense of humor look pretty highly sophisticated in comparison.

BTW, Willie, any luck on that research, yet? Sorry for railroading your thread like that.

You'll have to give us all a really good pun-ching later.

[Willie Long]

Willie, any luck on that research, yet?

I found some leads I'll have to follow up on tomorrow. Not everyone works on weekends.

You'll have to give us all a really good pun-ching later.

Naw, Jack. I'll have my new student do it. She's dying to see you dudes again, and could use the practice in any event.

[Ron Caliburn]

You'll have to give us all a really good pun-ching later.

Naw, Jack. I'll have my new student do it. She's dying to see you dudes again, and could use the practice in any event.

Oh no, you didn't.

[Celeste Darken]

You'll have to give us all a really good pun-ching later.

Naw, Jack. I'll have my new student do it. She's dying to see you dudes again, and could use the practice in any event.

Oh no, you didn't.

Yes, he did. Though Willie is exaggerating when he says I am “dying” to meet everyone else to practice my skills. We have been over the ground of “good” vampires, Ron, so I won’t repeat it. But the others on this forum say otherwise, and I am eager to prove my worth. And Willie Long has taken the chance, and he has not complained. I haven’t injured any innocents yet, and though I have eternity to break that record, I am not trying to do so. I see eternity not as a waiting period before I finally snap back to evil, but as a trying period to see how many other supernaturals I can kill. The problem with vampires is their immortality; if they are defeated, all they have to do is go underground and wait until the hunters are too old and feeble or dead of old age.

Well . . . I’ll be waiting for them.

[Bert_the_Turtle]

"She's dying to see you dudes again..."

Haha! Good one man.

[Willie Long]

Haha! Good one man.

***
Okay, turns out this dude wanted rare, expensive books. Shit that bookstores wouldn't just order for Joe-off-the-Street without cash up front, which he didn't have.

He forged letters from universities and museums to get the stores to order them, and paid with fake checks.

We bailed him out and he ran. Word reached us where he was last seen, and we headed out. There aren't all that many antique bookstores in any town, so we just went door-to-door until we found one that he'd started to scam.

We told the store owner what he'd done back home, and after getting the manager to call him and tell him his order arrived, my posse just staked out the joint and snatched him when he came in to pick it up.

[Bert_the_Turtle]

Kickass. I can't wait to hear why he wanted him.

[Willie Long]

When we picked him up, he said it was for the money. I hate it when they try jiving me. His scam's too elaborate, it's too much work for something so hard to fence.

[Bert_the_Turtle]

Agreed. The only way it'd be worth it for the money was if he already had a buyer lined up; not the kind of thing you can just fence for a fortune.

[KonThaak]

Well, what if he did have a buyer? The way I figure, if I were a criminal sorcerer who wanted these books, I'd hire a middle man. And what would I tell him?

"These things are hard to come by. They're rare, practically one-of-a-kind. There're people out there who'd pay a fortune for this stuff... Forget drugs. You want a ticket for life? Get your hands on these books for me..."

Three guesses as to the fate of the middle-man at the end of it all, success or failure.

I'm not a criminal, but this is where my mind wanders... Might be a good idea to keep an eye on your guy.