Redemption?

[Shang Li]

The Buddha was in a lotus-filled garden when he perceived a man named “Kandata” who was squirming in the depths of Hell. He had been a murderer, an arsonist, and thief. A lifetime of these causes had put him in hell. He was in the company of others like him.

The Buddha looked further into Kandata’s life and saw an incident where Kandata came upon a spider. He raised his foot to stomp on it. Suddenly, he reconsidered, thinking, "There is no doubt that this spider is also a living being and it is a shame to take its life for no reason." In the end he spared the spider.

Knowing this, the Buddha took a spider thread and lowered it to into depths of Hell with the intention of saving Kandata.

[Grace]

But what chance, a spider's thread in hell?

[concrete_Angel]

That's a new one. More creative than a snowball, at least.

I think the point is that there's always hope, even if it's only a little one. Also, if the weight of his evil actions is less than the weight of his good ones, he might climb out of hell. Or something spiritual like that.

[Shang Li]

I was merely waiting for a few responses and thoughts before I finished the story.



Kandata reached for the thread and found it strong enough to hold his weight. Using all his strength he began lifting himself from Hell.

After some progress, he looked down and saw hundreds of others behind him climbing on the same spider thread.

He shouted back at them: “Get off! This is mine!” Just then, the thread broke and Kandata fell back into Hell.

[Grace]

Dang freeloaders.

They ruin a good thing, every time!

[Shang Li]

I do truely feel sorry for you then, Mr. Nemesis.

Perhaps it is merely to illustrate the nature of buddhist justice?

An act of kindness does not go unanswered, nor does any other action taken.

We will all taste the fruits of our labors before the end, to some here, a prophesy of doom, to others, a promise of a just reward.

[Grace]

Or maybe the guy just plain deserved to go to hell and Budha shouldn't have tried to interfere with the cosmic order of things, giving a false hope not only to the guy who spared the spider, but also all those chumps that tried to ride his coat tails out.

Seems to me that the lesson to take away from this is, Don't get your hopes up.

[Peng Tai]

I get the story and it is a good metaphor that a single good deed can bring us redemption from our sins, so one thing.

I've been kind to others, where the hell is my redemption?
Do I have to die before I can be brought back into the good light of the world?

[GhostSpider]

Redemption is what you make of it. No one is going to tell you that you have been redeemed.

[Hannah]

Hi Shang Li.

By saving the spider, the man had done a good act, so he was given a chance (the spider's thread) to travel towards salvation. Once on the thread he committed a bad act (he was selfish and wanted the thread all to himself) so he lost his chance.

So the story tells me that one good act is all you need to set you on the path to salvation, but to stay on that path you need to continue your good acts.

It also may be a warning agaisnt thsoe who have found the path to salvation not to try to keep it from others who want it, but to show them the way.

Hannah

PS: I'm sure Dad would say that it shows that one good act does not make a good person.

[Cybermancer]

Such wisdom for one so young.

But as if often the case, wisdom is what you make of it and different people with different view points are going to learn different things from the same lesson.

[Technocrat]

Respect Budha and the gods without counting on their help.

-Miyamoto Musashi

[brooksntampa]

But you still see the hope here? The spider string may have broken, everyone falling back into "hell," but the string would have fallen with them, so they have somthing to use to perhaps repel themselves back up.

Most importantly...who ever heard of a man climbing up a spider web? It wouldn't hold him. It was his faith and belief that he was using to climb up. Others had faith in him, and he let them down. So typically budist...so many options and lessons to learn

[Eilonwy Solstice]

I get the story and it is a good metaphor that a single good deed can bring us redemption from our sins, so one thing.

I've been kind to others, where the hell is my redemption?
Do I have to die before I can be brought back into the good light of the world?

Well, Peng Tai, I’m not an expert, but if you’re “being kind” solely in hopes of receiving a reward . . . it’s rather like helping an old woman across the street and hoping to be remembered in her will in order to inherit a fortune; I suppose it’s possible, it’s just . . . unlikely.

I hope you’re all right. I haven’t read anything of yours since this post.

[Grace]

Are you saying then, Miss Solstice, that when a bad person does good, it can still be bad?

Which is better, a good person who does good because they are good?

Or a bad person who does good unintentionally?

[DarKnyht]

I think what she is saying is that motivations play into morality a great deal. Everyone does good when it benefits them, but a truly good person does good when there is no benefit (even when it means they may do harm to themselves).

[Eilonwy Solstice]

Are you saying then, Miss Solstice, that when a bad person does good, it can still be bad?

That’s exactly what I’m saying, Nemesis. The only “true” experience I have with evil is from vampires, but from that experience, I’ve learned they will tell a thousand truths if it will convince a victim of theirs about the “accuracy” of one lie.

Which is better, a good person who does good because they are good?

Or a bad person who does good unintentionally?

We can only do our best; that’s the most that anyone can ask fairly of us.

[alpha wolf]

Buddha does not show us the truth
Buddha shows us the path to truth

[Chen Lung]

Buddha shows A path to truth, not THE path. There is no path to Truth; it is a pathless road. A road that is not a road. It is total expression that has no before or after. How can there be methods and systems by which to arrive at something that is living? To that which is static, fixed, dead, there can be a way, a definite path, but not that which is living.

Truth is never a set idea and it is definitely not a conclusion. The Truth of life is a process.

As for your man in hell, he is guilty of not knowing himself which led him to criticize others for using what he saw as his means of escape. This is because criticizing others is easier than coming to know yourself. For it is easy to criticize and break down the spirit of others, but to know yourself takes maybe a lifetime -- maybe more. To take responsibility of one's actions, good and bad, is something else.

Seeking redemption requires first the thought that you have something for which you need saving; or even that there is something to be saved from. To know yourself is to know your relationship with others. Relationship is a process of self-revelation; it is the mirror in which you discover yourself -- it is to be related to everything. When you are faced with looking at your own life with awakened eyes, you will have increased the knowledge of yourself (your mental and physical abilities will become clear to you; your interdependency with others; etc.), and you will be liberated from the idea that you need to be saved from your life.

[Eilonwy Solstice]

If I may disagree, Chen? At least for me, awareness was not the road to the path of redemption; rather, it was simply the start of that path. Rectification was what led me through. Just as actions speak louder than words, so too, does it speak louder than awareness.

[alpha wolf]

Chen, thank-you for correcting me. Of course there is more than one path to truth.