Pest Control

[Shadowstalker]

I second that idea.

[Technocrat]

I agree with Ron!

(Even if he hasn't promised not to shoot me yet)

So where can we find dym?

[Shadowstalker]

Good question. We are not sure of a exact location for Dym, yet.

[Technocrat]

Damn.

It's too bad someone couldn't lure him out into the open.

[DarKnyht]

It's good to see that the Lazlo Love fest continues.

Last time I checked there was no screening process for the site membership. The intent of the society was a place for free exchange of thoughts, information, and resources. Like it or not the scientific study has to be balanced with combating the evils that prey on mankind. Mercs have their place here because scientists occasionally have to leave their ivory towers and enter the world they study. Not all the world is friendly to someone poking around in their dark secrets, and most scientists are not trained to defend themselves.

However, it might be a good idea for everyone to remember that in most civilized parts of the world issuing death threats (even online) can be considered a felony. I am also fairly sure that contracting hit men or being a hit man is likewise frowned upon. Likewise, it probably would be a good idea to remember too that the agency funding this site is a law abiding one. They probably will cooperate (and I am fairly sure have in the past) with the authorities if such a situation happened. Here in the US they might be cooperating without knowing it (see the mess over Telecom Immunity for more info).

[Michael T]

Nemesis I apologize for the rude way I responded to you about the contract offer from Dym. I have had a lot occuring and am a bit short tempered right now. I am not being rational and bit into you when I should have bit into Dym again.( I wonder Dym has that healed yet?)

I need to thank the rest of you for pointing out my error in behavior.

Michael T.

[Grace]

Micheal T,

If you can be man enough to apologize, then I can be gracious enough to accept. I have no quarrel with your or your friends and with any luck, we won't cross paths unfavorably in the future.

[Logan]

Nemesis, I like your work, efficent, clean, and most importantly, quiet.

[Grace]

Thank you Logan,

It's always nice to be appreciated.

[Bearshaman]

Hey skeptic, whats wrong with being a werewolf?

As for Nemesis, things have gotten a bit out of hand I think. Everyone seems to have figured that he is a problem. If you take him at his word, he is doing a job, yes its killing people, but some of the other members of the Society has said that its OK to kill humans. I for one, draw the line there. If the person is a cult member, some say that you need to kill them. I avoid that situation. Especially since if I did it, then Ron could feel justified that I have crossed that line and am now a threat to humans everywhere since I kill people not just monsters.

Don't push him to take a hit that he normally would turn down because we seem to be trying to attack him. He is doing some of the same work that we are but requesting pay for it.

I don't agree with his ideals, but I won't stand in his way, I am not Judge, Jury and Executioner for normal people, just toward those things that are a threat to humanity in general.

[Logan]

To me what he does matters far less than how publicly he does it. For all I care a member could go out and kill everyone they see one day, as long as it stays in the shadow it's not my problem.

Discrete services like those offered by Nemesis are an essential tool in my job, they allow the elimination of un prosecutable persons, the elimination with the leader at the same time as his cult, regardless of distance. All with a high degree of plausible deniability.

[Eilonwy Solstice]

I hope you and I don’t cross paths, Logan. I don’t think we would get along very well.

[Logan]

It's a part of the job, Solstice. I don't expect any friendship, I expect even less co-operation. You people go after the nasties, I prefer to go after the nasties. My job is to keep certain actions out of the public eye, or if I fail at that to make sure that the issue recieves a solution that diverts attention away from it.

Does that mean that sometimes I have to go after ordinary people? Yes, unfortunately it does. More than once a subcontractor has saved many lives and a great deal of headaches with a single bullet, often without even being aware of the agenda he served.

Another issue, Solstice, from a public order point of view, which do you prefer, a hired killer whom you can make use of, or a group of civilians with automatic weapons?

Ever stop to think why we push these things into the shadows at every opportunity? Think about how many american citizens have guns. Now think of the civilian casualties when they start shooting at every thing they see and can't identify. Think of the property damage that would ensue with that many poorly trained (if trained at all) fireing that many rounds in an urban environment.

I strongly reccoment Solstice, that you ask Caliburn about collateral damages. A team with assault weapons will always result in some form of collateral damage, often measured in civilian lives.

[Sasha]

A team with assault weapons will always result in some form of collateral damage, often measured in civilian lives.

False.

[Ron Caliburn]

That's where you and I disagree on things Logan.

It's a similar disagreement I have with Kolya and a few others.

The sooner people learn about and understand the supernatural the better. Yes there will be a rather traumatic adjsutment period, but sooner or later, something major is going to happen that is global in scale and catastrophic in intensity.

Humanity stands a much better chance of survival if we start the learning process sooner rather than later.

[DarKnyht]

Again, I would advise everyone to read up on what happened when "War of the Worlds" originally was broadcast. LIkewise, there is the Salem Witch Trials, the camps for the Japanese during WW2 in US history that shows how people who are scared react. Not everyone is going to be nice and rationale if and when the existence of the supernatural becomes public knowledge.

Personally I don't very much care for Logan's tactics, but I can understand the reasoning behind them. Introducing people to the supernatural is sort of like playing russian roulette with 5 bullets in the chambers. Most of the time you just end up with a mess that has to be cleaned up.

We need to educate the masses, but it needs to be a slower process than some advocate.

[Ron Caliburn]

Yes, we know what happened with the first War of the Worlds broadcast. But do you know what's happened everytime that show has been broadcast since? Nothing.

Yes there were internment camps in WWII, but I don't see middle eastern men being rounded up en masse after 9/11.

Humans learn, they may make errors along the way, but they do learn.

I'd say the chaos we get in the short term following the general population realizing this stuff is real is a far smaller price than we'd pay if we wait until we have some kind of major invasion like Cybermancer is indicating may happen.

So, how do you like your band-aid removed, fast or slow?

[Eilonwy Solstice]

I notice you conveniently left out whether or not the “hired killer” or the “civilians armed with automatic weapons” have scruples or not, Logan. And truth be told, I would take the one with the scruples, not the one with the dollar signs always in mind (no offense meant, Nemesis, that’s how I feel, though).

I have thought about the possibility of the public knowing about the supernatural, yes . . . and it’s a fact that eventually, the public will know, Logan. You cannot escape that fact. No matter how hard you try, people will see.

I have asked him, Logan. No collateral damage.

Yes, I understand where Logan is coming from, too. But understanding does not equal liking the methods. I will leave it at that. Whether he chooses to implement them is on his conscience alone.

[DarKnyht]

Yes there were internment camps in WWII, but I don't see middle eastern men being rounded up en masse after 9/11.

Well there is this particular bay in Cuba comes to mind, and our government does not exactly tell the public everything it is up to when it comes to the War on Terror. They were illegally tapping phone lines and would have continued to do so without public knowledge had someone not blown a whistle. Who's to say they are not taking suspected terrorists to Pakistan or another country like it to interrogate? That is not to mention all the wonderful laws that were rushed through congress that trampled all over our civic rights because of the fear and rumors of terrorists.

The fact is people get very stupid when faced with something they do not understand. Yes given time they would adapt, but I am not sure I want the collateral damage that would happen in the meantime.

[Razor]

Truth be told, I'm a civilian with some pretty powerful and dangerous firearms, but then again, I've also had training, outside of the military. I have the skills and then some to be a hired contract killer, and be quite good at it, not mention the ability to completely turn off anything resembling a concience.

In truth, I'm both, but I'll tell you this, I'll take the civilians any day, at least they have a real reason to take up arms and take the fight to the bump in the night. Money isn't a good enough reason. It takes the meaning out of anything, and simply makes what you do a mere service occupation, and if someone gets in the way, they're expendable. That makes you little better than whatever supernatural thing you're paid to eliminate.

There comes a point when one must choose what is right, or wrong, for them. And if it's money, then so be it, but you'll never be happy, and you'll never be able to trust anyone, or yourself.

[Cybermancer]

I've known quite a few mercenaries who were quite happy doing what they do for money. For them, money was more than enough reason. Although for some, money was the excuse and the reason was varied.

So which is money here, the reason or the excuse?

Not that it matters. I doubt it was a monster that dym has contacted Nemesis about killing. The next time they post in War Stories, you can expect to learn about the 'accidental death' of a human being.

That is what should be of concern. Not why he's about to do it, but the fact that he's about to do it.

And even if you stop Nemesis, there'll just be more like him available for use by dym. Mr. Caliburn is quite correct. dym must be stopped.

[Cybermancer]

Miss Dawes,

First of all, your assertion that most civilians know how to use guns is so laughable that it doesn't warrant argument.

Secondly, recognizing a dangerous situation and reacting properly to it are wholly seperate things.

It is by the willingness of 'government stormtroopers' in the guise of the police, federal law enforcement and soldiers to put their lives on the line and kill if necessary that you have the freedom to speak harshly of them. What you suggest, that civilians take care of their own business and protect themselves is called anarchy. Women do not do well in anarchy. Nor do the weak. Nor do civilians.

You are a hypocrite of the worst order. You accept the protection of people braver than yourself and then ridicule them for it. But rest assured, when the wolves come baying at your heels and the mob is at your door screaming for you head, it will be killers, yes those very same storm troopers, protecting you.

Or maybe not.

You deserve to get your wish.

Fortunately for you, there are those who are willing to ensure it never happens.

[Logan]

Dawes, as soon as you join, you arent't civilian, the basis for determining if a person is a civvie or not is simply a matter of determining if they are a member of the armed forces or not. Semantics aside, now on to the issue we are really discussing. You people that don't like my methods, don't like my tactics, don't like my primary mission objective - change them. I sould my sould to Uncle Sam back in the eighties. The trade was worth it, my ex and my boy may think I am dead but they are safe, and as long as they are safe I will keep doing my job with a minimum of questions about the morality. You want the agencies of your government to be composed entirely of moral men, elect moral men to the offices that control said agencies. Call me a monster if you like, but like most americans, as long as the things I care about are safe the rest is not my concern.

Gleefully, Dawes? Almost each time we go out I wind up explaining to a wife and a child how their daddy had a "training accident". Each time we go out, myself or one of the men I work with winds up criticly wounded. Inefficient by Lazlo society standards? Yes, yes we are, we don't have the luxury of the time to perform a full investigation, we don't have the luxury of having magic available to us, we get to make due with having modern military firepower - 90% of which is useless in a civilian environment due to civilian casualties, not to mention the collateral damage.

Oh and Dawes, for the last 15 years, this "stormtrooper" has managed to have the moral flexibility to carry out orders, orders that at some level are decided by you and the rest of this countries civilians, not that most of you even care enough to vote for the people that make our rules of engagement and give our orders.

You can all bash me for doing my duties all you want, to stop me you have to either change the system that gives us our orders or you can kill me. Untill then I will continue to prosecute this war to the best of my abilities.

[Ron Caliburn]

Gitmo is filled with those taken in the field, not with people who live in the USA. It's a bungled attempt at a Prisoner of War camp, not an internment camp for American citizens. ALso not that Congress is already working to repair the mistakes it made during the hysteria phase - which is now quickly ending.

I am not going to deny thigns will get ugly while people learn about the supernatural, but the sooner it happens, the sooner we get it out of the way and the least ammount of damage that will occur.

I'm not ust talking the civies either. Your average soldier and LEO needs to be taught about these things too or they won't have a chance when all Hell breaks loose.

[Eilonwy Solstice]

Guys . . . please. I know we all have our differences and views on morals, but we ought to put them aside or take them into consideration in private. We’re waging a war, and there will be casualties, whatever strategy we take.

Heather, I’m sorry if you feel that way about us. We try to the best of our ability, as I’m sure you do. But we’re human; we will fall short. Ron and Hannah know I’ve fallen enough times to get to know the floor intimately. But I got back up again, sometimes with their aid, sometimes by my own power. My impression is life is the same way. Good intentions may pave the way to Hell, but good actions will direct us to Heaven.

Logan, I’m sorry if you felt like I attacked you. You’re doing your best just as I’m doing mine. Just a suggestion, if I may: if you don’t want your actions and ideals criticized, then don’t bring them to the table for others to judge. Remember, this is an open website.

And finally . . . can we please remember that we are all here for a purpose: discussing the supernatural. Please . . . I think we can be friendly during the exchange of ideas.

[Technocrat]

Let me get this straight,

Miss Dawes,

You claim that the majority of civilians know how to use fire arms.

Then go on to claim that the police force and armed forces are civilians.

And you have the gall to call others stupid?

Perhaps you should spend less time insulting people, and more time checking your facts.

Or actually using facts.

There is no reason to believe from your comments, that you have in fact, associated with the branchs of government you claim to. There is no reason to believe that it is not you who are living a sheltered life style.

If you want reasonable debate, then use reasonable debate methods. If you want to come here and insult people, then you might as well prepare to be blocked until no one reads your posts anymore.

Is that what you want, to not matter anymore?

P.S.

Don't bother answering. Your attitude and negativity are well documented on this site. You're already irrelevant.

[Grace]

Miami is always so hot this time of year.

I should have a new War Story for you all by the end of the week.

Have a nice day!

[Logan]

No, Solstice, you and Dawes did not attack me, nor have I attacked any of you. You merely pointed out your stand on morals, I responded with my own view of the same subject.

I am just tired of the hypocracy of many of those on the boards. BertTheTurtle blows up a building, and that's fine, regardless of location. I admit that I use the services of hired killers and people jump down my throat. Caliburn nuetralizes the staff of a mental institution and then burns it to the ground, and since he says "it needed done" it's fine. KonThaak elimiates the threats posed by a cult of madmen, and since he said they were cultists and madmen, it's all OK. When I admit to hireing someone to use a single bullet to eleminate a threat that a team can't touch without causing large amounts of collateral damage, I am as much a monster as those things I push back into the shadows night after night.

If I was looking for acceptance or praise I would not be here, doing my job, tracking my casework. I would be on the FBI's HRT rescuing hostages. If I had my preferences we would be much more proactive in pushing the nasties back into the darkness, but then we would be the stormtroopers that I have been accused of being. Instead we have to wait till a DR1313 gets filed, or the local law enforcement calls us in to aid in the resolution of their "special" cases. Fortunately, the brass does recognize the nature of many of the threats, and other than full acountability for damages and casualties we are allowed to use "the agent on scene's best judgment".

[Ethan Skinner]

I am just tired of the hypocracy of many of those on the boards. BertTheTurtle blows up a building, and that's fine, regardless of location. I admit that I use the services of hired killers and people jump down my throat. Caliburn nuetralizes the staff of a mental institution and then burns it to the ground, and since he says "it needed done" it's fine. KonThaak elimiates the threats posed by a cult of madmen, and since he said they were cultists and madmen, it's all OK. When I admit to hireing someone to use a single bullet to eleminate a threat that a team can't touch without causing large amounts of collateral damage, I am as much a monster as those things I push back into the shadows night after night.

If I may: that's the crux of the problem, I believe: money. Caliburn, Bert_The_Turtle, KonThaak, and others may have done all that, but they have done it at their own expense, knowing full well they would not find a reward waiting for them. Nor will they, I hope, turn on us. But these "hired" killers are seen just like that: as hired killers. No loyalty but what the all mighty dollar gives. They would go after a human just as easily go after a "monster," so long as they get paid.

Or so the stereotype goes.

[Ron Caliburn]

Okay Logan, then tell me how the asylumn could have been dealt with better.

I'll also point out that the Asylmn situation was resolved by 1 man, and as far as I'm concerned, none of those he injured or killed were actually innocent.