GhostSpider and why Katja left thread.

[Kolya]

So as to not clutter up the other threads.

wanted to be likened to a predator.

Yes, and I was also being facetious.

I don't think you're in position to be playing word games. You know how some of us react to such things as this, and you know that you can fall back on the i'm-being-facetious defense and your chums will buy it lock, stock, and barrel. You're jabbing at a hornet's nest but you know you have a safety net around here.

You're a proven to be and admit to be not human.

Since when has being truthful about what I am proven to be a bad thing. Isn't that what you all keep demanding of me?

You've never been proven to be truthful. You freely admit that you're a mystery and you purposely play word games. Which means you know what you are, you're just not telling us. So it's time to cut through the bullshit and find out.

It took decades to get high dosage contraceptive pills off the market, and they knew they were dangerous.

There hasn't been enough time or effort spend on you. "Well we don't know, he seems cool" just doesn't fly with me. I got stacks of cases with eye witness reports saying "he seemed cool" and "he was such a pleasant neighbour" and so on and so on and so on.

I've taken down countless fucktards that are all sugary and rosey on the outside and dirty fucking evil on the inside. These fucktards, every last one of them, had people banging down my door demanding how I could do such a thing to angels and saints.

Once again, the point of this Society is to solve mysteries. As many have asked, why aren't we?

Razor threatened to kill her. Others shouted her down.

As I said, he could've been more diplomatic, and others tried to speak to her rationally & calmly. They made no threats and made it quite clear I was being watched closely.

Could've been more diplomatic, as in not issued a death threat to a fellow Society member instead of providing the proof that you're not a threat to humanity?

She left instead of suffering further ridicule and death threats.

No one ridiculed her. We simply tried to get her to expand her narrow view on vampires.

Bullshit.

Nobody tried to speak to her rationally and calmly. One of us straight up threatened to kill her. Except KonThaak to a lesser degree, everybody else just told her over and over that it's under control, that you're being watched, and that if you get out of hand somebody will be there to take you out. I don't believe that for a fucking second, and nobody has demonstrated that anybody can know when the time has come to splatter your brains all over the place. One of us simply reminded us that you helped and drank beer with them so she should just leave you alone.

There's nothing rational or calm about threatening to kill over a disagreement about the function of the Society or just spouting off a bunch of anecdotal bullshit about how nice of a chum you are and don't hurt people when they're around; there's nothing rational about not providing a shred of proof that you are not hurting people.

When her concerns were re-voiced, we're told Katja lacks forum etiquette and is simply rude and annoying by the same guy that simply threatened to kill her for pushing back against the total lack of interest in solving what exactly is going on with you, for pushing back against accepting without explaining. We're told she was just shooting her mouth off before checking the target. When she pushed for the Society to confront itself, the response was don't boil shit and act like an adult because adults can get past the differences. See, it's not about the fucking differences, it's about the fucking mystery.

That's what we're here for. Right? I don't see what's so difficult about making the right decision. And if the Society does prove itself to be a farce, then I've arrived at the same conclusion she did; I just wasn't smart enough to see sooner.

[Sophoroto]

Hi Mr. Kolya, how are you doing?

Um, you aren't leaving are you? I might need your's and Mr. Sasha's help. So if you could please hang around a little while longer?

[Kolya]

I'm great. I'm about to unload a shit-ton of stress in my life.

What are you up to? I'm not difficult to contact if you need anything, you know.

But wouldn't it be easier to trust Greydawn?

[Sophoroto]

After his last fight he is in no condition to help in this, but I am doing some research and looking for the best solution to the problem at hand.

[Ron Caliburn]

I am, in general terms, in a like mind with Kolya and kalle about any non-human entities on these boards and have done my bast to maintain a constant vigiliance towards their activities and be prepared to intervene.

However, as long as there are other members on the boards that I trust vouching for their good conduct I only observe and prepare.

I suppose it should be noted that there has been twice when I've decided to work directly with such non-human members, and each time they have been destroyed.

I have taken steps towards finding ways to make sure that Ghostspider won't be unbeatable if he does become a problem. I won't go into details, but I've made arrangements so that if the worst happens, my work becomes available to those who would do the right thing.

The other thing in regards to Ghostspider. He knows that I would without remorse or regret destroy him if need be. Yet he volentarily stepped up and helped to save my daughter's life at no small risk to himself.

Needless to say that means a lot to me.

So as much as my ususal distaste for and distrust towards those who aren't fully human extends to Ghostspider, I find myself as someone who is vouching for him and I hope that those on the boards that trust me will accept this from me.

[Kolya]

This is taken from another thread and worth repeating:

Now, in regards to GS, I'll say I'm doing my best to make sure number 3 is taken care of. I won't say anything else on this except that some of you should get to work on number 1 on his case so we don't have to worry about needing number 3.

I don't doubt that GhostSpider is a nice guy but I'm not sure he's a good guy, especially when he goes off and says some stupid shit like this:

Maybe it can kill, but just prefers manipulating the situation?

Evil bastards are evil bastards. Sometimes they just like that kind of crap.

I'm growing tired of his word games and us allowing him to get away with them without a gram of concern.

His vouchers are running real thin.

[Ron Caliburn]

Yeah, he doesn't help his own case much, I agree.

There is also plenty of concern on my part.

Even with full and complete hindsight, I would have still kept a stake specifically ready for Celeste - even assuming Wie wouldn't have been brought to us.

[Eilonwy Solstice]

She would have expected you to, Ron. Nor would she be offended by it.

And she has thanked you numerous times for not hesitating when the moment came.

[Cameron Thorne]

I know my words hold little merit here, but know that I also vouch for Ghostspider. He is trustworthy beyond all doubt. He has stared ultimate evil in the eye, and did not waver. He could have died to protect a world that seems to distrust him.

I know what that is like. For I am inhuman as well.

However as I have learned, one does not need to be HUMAN to know humility.

Miss Darken should be the prime example. Bearshaman and this Kelly for another.

What of those with "special" gifts. Are they human any further. Do those who have these powers still human? Should they still be considered human?

Who is anyone to dictate who or what has the right to exist simply because a person or thing does not fit the preset notion of "Human".

Another man in the history of humanity had such notions....I believe his name was Hitler.

Vampires, werewolves, today. How long until someone decides psychics and mages.....are not "Human" enough anymore? Just wondering?

Take heed that there is good and evil in any race; Human or Not.

You would be best to remember this.

[Cameron Thorne]

Well technically, vampires and lycanthropes aren't human anymore.

Humans are not too human anymore either.

[skeptic]

History tends to favor the hunters over the supernatural. If they did exist, extreme caution would be paramount cause you just never know when someone is going to snap.

It's so obviously true.
Why do we have to repeat it? Sad.

[Cybermancer]

[Robyn]

It seems to be a trait of humanity to be fearful of the unknown and to distrust that which is different. These are reasonable survival traits, all things considered. Yet still, they can be frustrating at times.

I'm afraid I'm not particularily familar with Ghost Spider or this particular issue. So I am left to question what is accurate and what is misconception.

[skeptic]

[Robyn]

It seems to be a trait of humanity to be fearful of the unknown and to distrust that which is different. These are reasonable survival traits, all things considered. Yet still, they can be frustrating at times.

I'm afraid I'm not particularily familar with Ghost Spider or this particular issue. So I am left to question what is accurate and what is misconception.

kalle never really cared GhostSpider isn't human.
She only cared that it fed on humans in order to survive.
And what pissed her and now seems to be pissing Kolya off is that there was (and remains to be the case) never more than a few bits of anecdotal evidence that he's not hurting anybody and absolutely zero evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that he can't hurt somebody.
That's the thrust of the argument.

[Shang Li]

Of course Mr. Ghostspider is dangerous, and very much able to hurt people. So is Mr. Koyla, and most of the others here. Do we need proof that Mr. Koyla (who does, self addmittedly, hurt people) is not hurting people becouse of some issue or another? Of course we don't, Mr. Koyla has a record of going after those his government would consider threats and eliminating them, normally quite efficiently. Mr. Konrad has a very similar record, and by any measure of which I am aware, Mr. Konrad was strong enough of mind to become the clearly dominant component of the trio of Mr. Konrad, Belladrox, Karlash, that we know as Ghostspider.

Since we knew and trusted Mr, Konrad, before he changed, shouldn't we be trying to find a way to change him back, if such can be done without freeing Belladrox? Instead we find ourselves arguing over first his "humanity" or lack thereof. Now we argue to try to decide if he needs to be "eliminated". I offer to Mr. Koyla and Ms. Kalle both the opposite side of the same challenge they base their arguments on. You say we need to "prove" that Mr. Ghostspider is not harming anyone with his feeding, I believe that the burden should be on those who would be judge, council, and executionor, prove to us that he is harming others with his feeding.

[KonThaak]

Again, Kalle had some valid points regarding GS... I can't sufficiently answer her questions. I'm not the one watching him; I'm having enough trouble watching over my own family, and I *live* with them. However, when others vouch so vehemently for him and his being watched, people I trust implicitly, I accept it is so.

No, noone should've been threatening others' lives over this. I'm sure it could've been justified that Kalle was basically threatening GS's life, but two wrongs don't make a right, as all of us should know by now.

I'm sorry, guys, but I've gotta say, this entire thing is completely fucked up. Kalle left over personal issues. I honestly feel bad about that--ask Kolya, I messaged him and asked him for help contacting Kalle. I wanted her to know that I didn't want her to leave the Society over this, and she said she wasn't leaving over this.

I would imagine that this helped, though.

At this point, butts have been hurt. Kolya, talk to Ron. Find out what provisions are being made. If these provisions are satisfactory, let it drop. If not, let us know, in private if you have to.

Beyond that, everyone, please just drop it. There is no evidence to show that GS isn't hurting innocents...save for the total and complete lack of evidence that he is hurting innocents. That usually will hold up in court, and it's good enough for me.

[Kolya]

I don't give two shakes about GS's humanity; clearly he's not human. But I know plenty of non-humans, and live and fight along some of them on occasion.

I'm not the one that merged with supernatural evil. I don't have to prove anything; but the difference is: if I had to, I could.

Consider it dropped.

Over and out.

[KonThaak]

Kolya... I'm sorry...and thank you for letting it go. I hope I didn't offend you...and I hope Kalle decides to come back at some point.

[Natasha]

Don't worry about Kolya, he doesn't get offended very easily at all. While he may return to post a report time from time, Katja definitely won't be returning.

[KonThaak]

I'm truly sorry to hear that...

[Natasha]

C'est la vie

[Ron Caliburn]

There's been a few times I wanted to leave this place over the disagreements over what we need to do with predators.

In the past I have ridden Ghost pretyt hard about us not knowing a lot of things about him and that we need to be ready to take him out if need be.

I still am.

But recent events ave given me reason to give him a bit more benefit of the doubt than I'll admit I ever gave Celeste or Bloodbane.

Kalle is also not the first one to be threatened by other Lazlo society members for threatening to put down what they beleived was a monster.

In fact, as far as I know, certain threats agains my life still stand.

Not that they have changed my behavoirs in any way, nor will they stay my hand if I feel the need.

I will never completely trust Ghost until such time as we can completely understand his condition and can catagorically eliminate any unusual threat he poses.

But for now, I'm not going to be pressng this.

[Kolya]

Don't worry about Kolya, he doesn't get offended very easily at all. While he may return to post a report time from time, Katja definitely won't be returning.

I'm out; this is my last post here. I'm not offended. I'm just tired of the Mickey Mouse club.

Of course, anybody can contact me or Katja via PM, however.

[GhostSpider]

While I realize this whole thread is pretty much aimed at me, I only have this to say. I know my feeding doesn't hurt people, others have vouched to that fact. I think the trouble is that most of you can't get that one niggle out of your mind...What if?

What if, eventually, some negative effect does come to light? What if ten or twenty years down the road, my feeding is shown to be harmful? This is what some of you people want to know. Well, I have no clear answer for you. If there are long term negative effects, than they'll show up later, but for right now, I can't worry about that. In fact I don't worry about that, cause I don't believe it will happen.

I am what I am. Nothing can change that now.

There, one last ambiguous statement for you Kolya. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

[Hannah]

Hello Ghostspider,

I know the two of you don't get along, I don't think my dad and you can be described as friendly either, but he stood up for you against someone whom he almost never disagrees with and never says ill of. Maybe instead of trying to act mysterious and cool you could have taken some time and worked with some people who ultimately meant will.

Kalle and Kolya are like my father, they want to protect people from harm. They are concerned because they don't know if you may be harmful and so far nothing has been able to reassure them that you are not.

However, you don't try to convince them of that, you don't try to provide evidence of that. Instead you relied on other people who also don't have solid evidence to make the case on your behalf because they feel they are right. Meanwhile you sat there and fanned the fires by joking about how you were some kind of monster.

Then you seemed annoyed that Kolya and Kalle (and for a while my father) said "We can't be sure." and "We don't feel we can trust him." when you'd help make that true.

Then finally, that parting shot.

I don't think you're dangerous or harmful, and I am very grateful for your help in rescuing me, but I don't think you're a very nice person Ghostspider.

Hannah

PS: I am worried that you are enjoying your status too much. I am worried that your "otherness" may be going to your head. Celeste was a vampire who tried to be human; you seem to be a human who is trying to be a vampire.

[GhostSpider]

Prove it.

My father used to tell me that, whenever I asked him for something. He wanted me to prove to him that I was worthy of any attention he deigned to give me.

Once he had been planning a business trip, and told me that if I wanted to come I had to have all A's on my report card. Well I studied my ass off, worked hard, and got that straight A report card. I was so proud. When I showed it to him that night at the table, he barely glanced at it before telling me that he would be taking the twins, and three kids would be too much to handle. I had to stay behind. To make it worse, this wasn't the first time he had pulled this stunt, but I had fallen for it yet again. A few weeks later, the school tough guy got into my way in the hallway, and when I asked him to move, that I wasn't in the mood, he told me to prove it. To this day, i'm still not sure where I got the hammer, but I know I put it to very good use. I shattered both his knees, broke his arms, cracked his ribs, broke his collarbone, his nose and blacked out both his eyes. Oh, but this wasn't some berserk rage, no this was cold and calculated. Every blow meant to "prove" to him how bad a mood I was in.

The moral of this is, work with me, ask questions if you want, but don't ever tell me to prove myself to you.

[Ron Caliburn]

I shattered both his knees, broke his arms, cracked his ribs, broke his collarbone, his nose and blacked out both his eyes. Oh, but this wasn't some berserk rage, no this was cold and calculated. Every blow meant to "prove" to him how bad a mood I was in.

The moral of this is, work with me, ask questions if you want, but don't ever tell me to prove myself to you.

I think you just provided us with plenty of proof.

[GhostSpider]

[Ron Caliburn]

You don't get it do you?

We're here trying to make sure we do the right thing in order to prevent people from possibly getting hurt or worse and you get on some sort of wounded ego trip about us wanting you to aid us in understanding you and then blow it off as if it was some sort of game.

It's unfortunate that the word proof offends you. Maybe if we said evidence it would be better? Perhaps something more sterile, like data?

I know some of us have been hard on you about this, but in our minds innocent lives may be at stake, so I hope you'll understand certain urgency on our part.

But this belligerent teenage attitude doesn't make anyone's lives any easier, especially yours and those who are trying to work with you.

You've demonstrated your sincerity, courage and intent plenty enough times that none of us doubt that.

But there is a mystery that surrounds you that we need to get to the bottom of.

Solving a mystery requires proof.

So wake and smell the coffee, grow a pair, get over it and man up or whatever other cliché you want to use, but it's time to stop acting like we're your daddy come to take away your favorite toy.

[Clarity]

_____Are you scared, Mr. Ghost?

[GhostSpider]

Of myself?

Always.