Problem

[Razor]

Uhh.. Shang Li, aren't you supposed to be... DEAD?!?!!?!

Not that I mind having an old face back, but damnit all I'm getting tired of the supposed dead returning to the land of the living. People should make up their minds whether they are alive or dead.

[Prometheus Ping]

Uhh.. Shang Li, aren't you supposed to be... DEAD?!?!!?!

Not that I mind having an old face back, but damnit all I'm getting tired of the supposed dead returning to the land of the living. People should make up their minds whether they are alive or dead.

Time traveler? Zombie? Dimensional visitor?
I've met me from the future, or so he claims. I invent a time perambulator in one potential future. Which is strange because I do have a passing interest, same as the next guy, but tend to be more interested in light manipulation.

[Razor]

Uhhh.. what exactly are you trying to say? I thought Cyanide could be vague and scattered at times, or Hit Squirrel, but I dunno. I think they have competition now.

[Ethan Skinner]

There have been a number of time travelers here. Parallel universes, too. I think he was considering possibilities.

Myself, I was thinking it might be something "simpler." Ch'i, perhaps. Chinese lore has much to say on it.

[Prometheus Ping]

Or, he/it could be a doppleganger.

[Razor]

Ch'i, or Shen, I do know a fair bit about myself. Though really Ki would be more accurate in some aspects of Shang's abilities.

It could also be that he has become what they term over there as a 'hopping vampire'. An undead class of creature that does not feed on blood, but life force and vitality. With Shang's previous list of abilities, it would not be that big of a jump to see them reversed, though I doubt that is the case.

[Shang Li]

I am sorry to cause you so much confusion Mr. Razor. When I followed Mr. Turtles instructions and rigged the temple entrance to collapse, I truely believed those would be my last deeds on this earth, ever. It appears that I did not pass Mara's test, and so instead of permanently departing from this world, I am here once more.


May Lau Tzu feel every loss, every pain, every suffering, all the pain of the lives repeatedly lived, and suffered through, by those who read and understood his accursed Dao Te Ching.

[KonThaak]

Li-sensei, it is not the seer who is to blame for what he sees... Lao Tzu (if he truly existed) wrote not to burden us, but to release us... He simply wrote what he knew. Reality did not change as a result of his writings. It is wrong to curse him for seeing what he was shown.

I know, somewhere deep down, you know that, too...

[Chen Lung]

KonThak: As much as I would like to agree with you here, it is hard considering that living too long is not the human way. The immortality gained from enlightenment is not a blessing but a burden. Although Lao-Tzu was not a seer, he was a sage, and he didn't write the Tao de Jing, he told it to the guard at the Western Gate to the Kingdom of Ch'in before he departed to wander the world away from the troubles of men.

Li: I am confused, was your enlightenment in the ways of the gunas and shamballa or in the Tao? A test by Mara would be Hinduism not Buddhism or Taoism. I have seen the ways of the Tao and Mara is not there. I have studied long enough to know that the three ways are not the same and are not compatible; although, I also know that all three are real and do have power over their believers. But your enlightened return seems to be rather false in belief. Please forgive my apparent ignorance, it is just a question.

[KonThaak]

The story I've been taught was that Lao Tzu was about to leave, and the guard recognized that Lao Tzu was enlightened. Before he left, the guard begged him to leave writings, that others could still learn from him. Lao Tzu went back into the kingdom for a few days, and came back with a scroll. He left the scroll with the guard, and left the kingdom forever. Even if I am wrong and he transcribed it to the guard, he still wrote it, and the guard was simply a tool for that writing.

That is the story as it has been taught to me...and the Tao te Ching does not, by itself, promise immortality. I had always understood it was the Taoist sorcerors of later years who strove for that goal, but as you said, immortality is not the human way. To die and reborn endlessly until one's endeavors towards enlightenment have been reached, and then to return to the Tao... That is the immortality as I understand it.

If your immortality came with the acquisition of an object, then I would venture to say that your immortality is a curse, and your enlightenment is separate from it altogether...for enlightenment comes with gaining insight into yourself and the universe around you, not from the acquisition of cursed artifacts. Your enlightenment very likely began the moment you realized you had immortality...and did not want it. Therefore, to you, it would seem bound to your curse...

[Shang Li]

Master Chen Lung, A traveller to my homeland who was there to visit the emperor impressed my father, a shinto preist, with his strength and humility. That man taught me of the Dao, taught me of balance, he taught me of many wonderfull things. He also however, taught me deeper secrets, granting me my desire for knowledge. Since those years of study as his deciple, I have found that even should I desire to I do not remain dead. Since that time I have turned to Buddhist practice, since it promises, at the end of it's road, a release from the very thing that plagues me most - the cycle of rebirth into physical form. According to the sutras, Mara also tested Guatma Buddha while he walked his path, tempting him with beautifull young women. I assume that I failed a similar test between my last life and this one, as if my understanding were complete, I would now be a bodhisavata, no longer bound to this world.

KonThaak, think of losing your wife and child. Now think of repeating such a loss many times. Now think of how you felt the last time you buried a good friend. Now repeat that for all of your friends, many times over. The memories all come back, as soon as something reminds you of them. Everyone seems to see Lau Tzu's joke as a blessing, not many consider the implications of living long enough to see mountains grow.

[KonThaak]

Lao Tzu didn't set up the universe... He only related it as he saw and understood it. He didn't force you into the Tao... He isn't the one who is personally bringing you back.

I understand your frustration, Li-sensei, even as you put it... I have a very vivid imagination. Even still...this doesn't seem like you at all. Come to a full understanding of that which you desire, and begin working out how to achieve it. Is it true Nirvana you desire? Is it oblivion? Is it to return to the Tao? Come to a decision as to what you want... Take your time. You have another lifetime to consider it.

[Shang Li]

Forgive my venom and my bitterness. I do not mean to disturb any of those who consider me to be friend, I am not certain why so many of the memories I have had returned to me are so filled with sorrow and pain. I do not beleive it was always so, or at least in these painfull memories that were returned to me, I can find nothing so onerous as my experiences these past weeks.

Please forgive the childish outbursts of a fool, I am uncertain of a great many things, but I know this one thing to be true. With all of the pain and suffering in the world, I cannot sit idle and watch, something must be done.

[GhostSpider]

Now that sounds more like the Shang Li we all know.

[KonThaak]

Amen.

Li-sensei, given your current...situation, I think your "childish outbursts" are understandable and forgivable. After all, you are currently being affected by the body chemistry of an 8-year-old... There are going to be things that seem very unfair, that you normally would brush off. There are going to be some noticeable differences in your general attitude that you won't be able to help.

Just keep in mind, we're all here for you, Li-sensei...

[Shang Li]

It was only today that I discovered that the good was coming along with the bad.

The dark moments of my past come back to me thick and fast, the pleasant moments much less so. All of the violence, the blood, the pain and the sorrow, they are often overwhelming, and untill earlier today I had no pleasant memories to escape to.

At least now I have a hilltop temple to explore when things begin to overwhelm, the temple and the orchard around it.

[Razor]

That, my friend, makes me smile.

A great friend of mine, who's also lived far longer than any person has a right to imparted to me a few things. There are times when all the world seems dark and gray, and friends fight and die, by night and by day. But then there are those moments and times when all the world seems right, and at peace, and the madness fades. A morning sunrise over the mountains as the sun sets golden fire to the fog as it rises and burns to the sky... the quite stillness and the gentle breeze as it drifts through the midday air, caressing the cherry blossoms of an orchard like a tender lover.. the cool breeze rippling over the plains of grain, turning the land to golden water while the crickets and cicadas orchestrate a symphony in the distance. The gardens and steps of a quiet temple, nestled in the mountains, and in the distance a bell tolls in the stillness...

Simple moments like that have often proved to be the counter to all the things we see, and it has often been times that remembering things like that have gotten me through the next hour.. adn then the next.

... sorry for that last paragraph or so. He decided to pop his psychic head in and hash that out... You get the idea though, right?

[Eilonwy Solstice]

I think I do. We have to fight or else everything that is good and wonderful and worthwhile on this earth will be torn down and trodden underfoot, and fade for only memory to recall . . . we have to fight or even those may be lost. We should be grateful our friends are coming back, not flinch away in revulsion.

[Razor]

Flinching away? No. I just don't think it's right that people as well as those things play by the normal rules. Dead is dead, or at least that's how I was brought up to think.

Granted, I know that is narrow-minded. But it grates on the nerves when things just aren't logical.

Then comes the question of, "Raz, you of all people shouldn't always center on the logical. You're a psychic! Doesn't what you do every day defy logic?"

Yes, yes it does. But I try to see both sides of the picture, and not get lost in fantasy. When the lines between what you read in a novel, and the real world start to blur.. there's a problem.

[KonThaak]

Psychic abilities aren't illogical. They make perfect sense. It is the bending of the energies around you using your will to enforce certain results to happen. Like any other skill, sometimes you manage to make it work, sometimes you don't. (People who expect a 100% success rate for psychics need to look themselves in the eye and say that they manage the same success rate in everything they do...and if they can do that, they're lying to themselves.) I'm sure if we had the means to properly trace and track how you utilize your energies, science would be able to nod its head and say, "Alright, now we understand."

[Razor]

Heh, talk to Stanford Research Institute's Cognitive Sciences Researc Department.

They've worked with CIA Remote Viewers programs since the start, as well as other psychic ability studies. Most of what they discovered is compartmentalized and classified a great deal. I should know.

I meant the general view of psychics and psychic ability. The goverment and the scientists attached to it, know more than well that psi is very real, and they are studying it, getting it figured out. That's where my mentor came from and brought to me many of those same techniques, study data and training that they found makes their people quite skilled and strong. I had another psychic friend take a mental look at me once. To them I looked like a bodybuilder, except relatively I could have picked up a car and tossed it like it was nothing. I've never been a mental midget though.

I know quite well that psychic ability is real, and I understand the science behind it. As I said in another post, it is one of my goals to prove that this stuff is real, verifiable, repeatable, and learnable to human kind, before it is too late.

I believe that everyone has psychic potential, be it like a nega-psychic, or more 'active' psychic abilities, or just passive, sensing abilities. Everyone has the potential. It's the understanding and practice that most come up short on. Nearly anyone you talk to has had an intuition, a premonition, or something else that has come to them. The potential of the human mind is quite powerful, and it's only a matter of learning to harness that, to Awaken the mind to its true potential that holds us back.

[Eilonwy Solstice]

Does that mean you have a problem with me as well, Razor?

[Razor]

Reincarnation is different from resurrection.

And no, I've never had a problem with you, Wie. No matter the mask you've worn.

I actually liked Celeste a lot. Too bad I never got to meet her in person before she bit the dust. But that's okay, the new version I like a fair bit as well.