With more and more people in the world; why.............?

[Ron Caliburn]

GS,

I think we've found a problem that needs looked at.

If that stuff makes you do what you did . . . well I don't think you cna safely be around civilization again.

[Sophoroto]

When people are born they are not immersed in our world, but in the world of science and ignorance which conditions them to think we are just telling stories. Fuck them!

So why don't we just go back to the Dark Ages. Is that what you want? What if science can prove the supernatural, would you have a difference of opinion then? If I remember clearly, Victor was using science to prove the supernatural (A long shot, but he did try).

I'm immersed in your world all the damn time and I still don't see what you see.

Miss Dawes, I am not trying to be rude so you know, but are you truly trying to learn or are you simply trying to prove it doesn't exist, do you have an open mind that it could exist? If not you will not be able to see.

[Peng Tai]

I didn't choose to see this side of the world we live in I was forced into it. I don't like it, but I haven't left. I'm obligated to continue with my task for all the right reasons and my personal redemption.

[Prometheus Ping]

If science is a fairy-tale, then I guess your post just doesn't exist either. Neither does the medicine that I am taking to control the pains of neuropathy, or the jet airliner that brought my father from China to America, or ship that brought my grandmother from Greece, or the Eagle lander that took men to the surface of the Moon, or the antibiotics that cured my cousin of his infection from syphilis after his trip to Thailand, or the lasers in the Pink Floyd light show my family went to lst June, or the myriad of other benifits that have brought man up out of ignorance, or the atomic bomb that ende the second world war and saved countless allied lives who would have peished in an assault on the Japanese main land. It is the great equalizer, more so than magic.
Science has done more for the human race in the last 200 years than religion did in the last 5,000 years. What have the gods done for the human race as a whole? Other than demand begging and worship and take credit for something they had no part in while giving only hatred and misery in return?

Do you know why the worlds religions fear science? My friend, Lord Krishna has shown me much and told me that one day science stands to eclipse the limitations of magic- which I have come to understand without superstition. It is an energy that is raw and powerful, but NOT the root cause of this world or any other. It is a by product of other forces. It can, like science, be harnessed for either good or evil.
I have met a few of these things, these beings, which would call themselves gods. And these things that we call demons. They are nothing more than travelers to and invaders of this world, and they are not as all powerful as the primitive minds of our ancestors thought. They CAN be killed, they can be banished from this world, as many here have experienced. Even "those who can not be called out by name" have weaknesses. Even 'Death' may die... with the proper understanding and application of science. This world is beautiful and green with life; but there are envious eyes that watch our world, that covet the life force it generates. They hunger for dominion and power over what we call our souls, but they only have as much power as WE give to them. Krishna taught me how to fight some of these beings, for reasons of his own that I have yet to understand.
But one thing is for certain, science is what will save mankind from itself and from the beings that seek dominion over us. Magic is a real power that flows through the universe in glimmering threads, but it is paled when compared to the miracles of science. Why not use one to compliment the other?

[KonThaak]

I don't see science as being that far different than magic, myself... Sure, it may not take a constant supply of Dr. Lazlo's "Potential Psychic Energy" to hold a plane aloft, but according to physics, there are energies acting on the plane at all times, ranging from kinetic energies to more physical energies emanating from properties of the wind. It's practically magic that we can get a piece of metal weighing several tons airborne, along with dozens to hundreds of humans plus cargo, and get that piece of metal hundreds of miles in the span of a few hours.

In many cases, I believe many aspects of science were derived from stories of magic. In stories across the world, a sorceror can scry a crystal ball or a bowl of water, and see events halfway across the world... Someone took this idea and modified it, and now we have television, broadcast through radio waves, which are, themselves, a kind of energy.

It would almost seem pointless to point out electricity as a form of energy...

Prometheus, remember: not all magic is granted by gods. Many forms of magic are not. Many religions fear science as you said; the gods fear it overshadowing them, the followers fear it will reveal the world differently than they have always believed it to be...but there are followers of certain religions around the world who embrace the ideals of science, and their higher powers do not openly spurn it. Taoism has no god to spurn it, and many modern discoveries made by quantum physics seems to coincide with teachings by Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu. Many Christians, too, seek to see science through their religion, and see their religion through science. Druids of the OBOD seem to embrace science and modern life, though other druidic orders are less than enthusiastic... (As for myself, this post should tell you where I stand.)

I believe that science will one day uncover magic, but in the arrogance of the followers of science, they will refuse to call it such. They'll probably resort to "energy manipulation" or some such. As for gods, I personally believe that most gods are unworthy of the attention they demand... It is those who do not demand our attention and praise and seek to help us that deserve our attention. In any case, who an individual chooses to worship (or not worship) should be left up to the individual, and not others who "know better" for one reason or another.

Those who say that science, magic, and religion cannot be reconciled with each other are not true students of any of them. Science alone cannot save us from ourselves... Science, just like the zealots within magic and religion, has sought to save us, and has given us more and more efficient means of destroying ourselves in the process.

[Sophoroto]

Miss Dawes, I am not trying to be rude so you know, but are you truly trying to learn or are you simply trying to prove it doesn't exist, do you have an open mind that it could exist? If not you will not be able to see.

Oh yes, the old you have a closed mind argument. Like I stated once before, I started in a cult before I became a skeptic. I believed in what I was told, but I stop when I realized what I was being told was nothing more the one persons imagination put to bad use to control others.

My ultimate goal is to debunk such things. Foremost, by going to the persons and holding them responsible for their claims. They can't prove it to me while I'm standing right there, then what am I supposed to believe?

Oh, yes. I have a closed mind. I disturb the ambient energies in the area, my disbelief is the reason they can't summon abilities abilities, the creature won't come because my presence offends them, etc.

The list of excuses goes onwards and forwards. Yet, I'm still called stupid because I dare search out these so called truths and seek to bring them to the light. I can't count the times I've been threaten with death because I do this, or threaten I'll be killed when these so called monster will rise up and strike me down when I lest expect it. Threaten because I prefer reason over blind hysterics. Its an old tune I get to hear over and over again.

Only its the Barny Song, not a symphony.

Miss Dawes, I was not attacking you, sorry if it came of that way.

I think we need more people like you. You say you have a closed mind, yet you still seek these things and try to bring them to light, you search for the truth and I commend you on that. I hope you are successful in your endeavor, for as Mr. Greydawn says the truth is very seldom what we think it is.

[Ron Caliburn]

I had some uncles and cousins who served in 'Nam.

Many of the local force VC guys they ran up agaisnt had no clue about modern technology, thought that the Hueys that carried our boys around were giant insects we had trained and that the AC-47 gunships they called in for fire support were dragons.

I suppose there is some truth to the saying that any advanced enough technology will appear as magic.

[Peng Tai]

If science is a fairy-tale...

I do believe my statement was misconstrued. I never said science was a fairy tale, science does exist and it betters the lives of the "normal" people while trying to explain us away. I simply said that the lives that the "normal" people live is a fairy tale of ingnorance.

[Sophoroto]

I don't have a closed mind. I was being sarcastic.

Oh sorry didn't catch the sarcasm, can you forgive my ignorance I am only 15 you know.

hehe sometimes being a kid has its advantages.

[Holister]

Yeah...but what's her excuse Soph....

[Sophoroto]

She's an adult and forgot how to talk to kids.

[skeptic]

The pearls of wisdom that fall from a child's mouth is a rare demonstration of true beauty.

[GhostSpider]

Soph does that sometimes.

[Cameron Thorne]

That " child " has more logic than most adults. He is fortunate to have his eyes open to the world around him; all of it.

There are those who would prefer to remain blind to that which they choose not to see. For them I would be more than happy to permanently arrange that very thing.

You are the next Sophroto. I see that now. Protect your teacher young ward. Soon it will be time and Bharghast will come.

[skeptic]

Yeah sure he does.
That's why runs away all the time.

[John Doe]

Because the supernatural, the occult, the paranormal, and the boogeyman is all bullshit.

The last time something scary jumped out of the shadows and attacked me it was a stoned mugger in a cheesy rubber vampire mask. I was scared for all but what..never. So I clocked him with a 2x4, pulled the mask off, then proceeded to cram it down his god dam throat. Son of bitch deserved it.

So much for your boogeyman bullshit. Get a real job you bums.

[GhostSpider]

Some of us do have real jobs.

[John Doe]

Jerry Springer extra doesn't count man.

[GhostSpider]

[John Doe]

If you haven't figured it out by now, I am a professional debunker. So far I have yet to come across anything substantial other than spook house special effects bull shit and jokers running around in the dark wearing shitty costumes yelling " BOO! "

I currently have had five assualt case brought against because I enjoy beating the living crap out of these goth monkey loosers. I beat each and every one of those charges.

Heard about this place so I just had to check it out.

HA!

[Michael T]

Ignoring your very belligerent attitude welcome to the boards. Most pepole respond better to a more civilized debate of beliefs as to what is real or not. And most of us have normal jobs and lives, we choose to deal with things that are not easy to explain or prove to be paranormal to the general public.

I do ask you to not be so agressive and combative to people here it can get you banned or placed on the ignore list of the vast majority of people. Again welcome to the board and hopefully we can have nice calm discussions on the paranormal or lack of it.

Michael T.

[GhostSpider]

I'm glad we amuse you.

[John Doe]

I like to think f myself as more of an " in your face " personality. Simply put, I don't believe in this crap, I have yet to experience any of tis crap, and I look for it 24/7.

Seriously....what dam rock is it hiding under then. According to you folks its all over the place like bad politics. I call BULL SHIT!!! So I say prove it. I am calling you out; put up or shut up I say.

Show me something I can not debunk, something I can acctually call solid proof, and I will be the first to admit I am wrong. So until, jog on sideshow.

[GhostSpider]

And people wonder why I don't like sceptics.

[John Doe]

and here I was thinking I was being so out going and friendly.

[Shang Li]

"Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?""

[GhostSpider]

For once, I actually understood you Shang.

[John Doe]

Bruce Lee would be proud. Get back to me when you start making some sense.

Next Caller.

Seriously. I am a Son of a Bitch. I admitt it. But I am not here to makes friends and do the whole Camp Lazlo bubby system bull shit that I have read.

I want some hard proof. In fact, there is a place I know that would be perfect to prove my point.

[Cybermancer]

[Robyn]

Perhaps an empty vessel is not what is required but rather a larger one? Forgive me if I've been too literal, I do not often understand the meaning of Zen stories.

To me, all knowledge has value and should be kept. The answer would therefore seem to be to keep what knowledge I have and find a way to extend my capacity for more. I do not delete the operating system off my computer to make room for a new file. I get a larger hard drive.

Again, apologies if I do not understand your meaning.

[GhostSpider]

Well, John, I hope you have fun.