Life? Don't talk to me about life!

concrete_Angel · Post by **concrete_Angel** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:12 pm

I know that's a bad way of starting, but I'm sure the question has been thought about with our line of work:

Is it wrong to being a new life into this world when we're already dealing with the suffering of humanity? If every child starts out being innocent, then are we inherently condemning them to a life of pain and tragedy by allowing them to enter the world that's inevitably going to end up killing them in the long term? And why do people have kids at all, if it turns out they're only going to regret the decision and get rid of them?

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:33 pm

The fastest way to end a war is to lose it (which can be done by simply giving up).

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:10 pm

We each have hope that our child will have a better life than we did. If everyone strives for that goal, future generations will live in a utopian world.

Until then we need to muddle through and do our best to raise our offspring the best we can so the world is enriched a little more every generation.

KonThaak · Post by **KonThaak** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:04 am

We've been dealing with the suffering of humanity since humanity had the capability to suffer. To wonder if we're in the wrong for condemning our children to life and death is to wonder if our ancestors were in the wrong.

As for why people have kids if they're going to get rid of them... Sometimes, it's out of their control. They get pregnant, and then something happens during the pregnancy where they can't take care of the baby. Maybe they were using protection, and the pregnancy was unintentional, and they don't have the means to care for a child.

Other times, they're just irresponsible.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:43 am

Everyone on these boards, including Hannah knows this, so I have no issues saying this.

I never intended to be a father.

For a long time i didn't want to be a father . . . I spent too much time watching other people's kids dying or worse.

I tried to ignore she existed. I tried to pretend she was safe and she was happy.

Time ran out, and she needed me to bring her out into this world. I couldn't do it alone, and I can never properly express my gratitude to those who helped me.

I wish I had a better world to bring her into, but I don't. So everyday I try to make it a little better for her. Everyday I try to make sure there is one less monster under the bed, one less stranger in the alley, one less thirsty vampire . . .

In exchange . . . I can't describe it.

When I first started posting here I hated myself - truely, deeply and without limit.

Now . . . I still have bad days, but when she looks up at me I suddenly am stronger, faster, smarter and braver than any man who ever lived.

I know the world will be a better place for her because I can and will make it so.

KonThaak · Post by **KonThaak** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:56 am

Amen.

Natasha · Post by **Natasha** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:34 am

Gotta find what motivates you and like the guys said already, don't give up.

DroopyDawg · Post by **DroopyDawg** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:53 am

I started to reply last night, but actually fell asleep at the keyboard. (Too many noises in my head keeping me awake.)

The reason why people procreate is because we are genetically geared to. We have come up with many ways to circumnavigate the inevitable outcome. Unfortunately, life has found many ways around these ways.

The right or wrong of bringing a child in to this world is often out of our control. We can not always dictate to the vagaries of life. So many things still lie outside of our control.

Years ago, before the new millennium, my ex-wife and I were trying to have a child. A highly religious friend of mine who was convinced that the end of days would be in 2000 told me that I was insane to bring a child into the world at that time. I personally thought that was an odd statement at the time and in ways still do.

Mankind has been suffering for as long as mankind has been sentient. This is not something that is new. All we can do is hope for the best and muddle through.

My belief is that we are brought in to this world from whatever lies beyond, with the purpose of learning. We have specific lessons that are required for us to understand before we are allowed to move to whatever may come next. Now I don’t think you’ll come back as a dog or a bug, but I do believe that you will keep returning to this life until your lessons are complete.

Pain is a wonderful teacher as is suffering. Even if you don’t look at it from the aspect of learning, both are also wonderful catalysts for evolution. Pain and suffering are necessary aspects of life.

So, what to make of all of this? Live a life causing as little pain and suffering to others as possible, and try to remove as much pain and suffering as possible, and I think then you can say you have lived a good life.

Droopy

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:39 am

My life has been defined, until recently, by pain and suffering. My own, those around me, those that I inflicted it on and those that I prevented from it.

Natasha · Post by **Natasha** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:57 am

My life was and continues to be defined by torture.

After I escape my home and find some angel who helps me to attend University and learn things 99.9% of the world can't learn nevermind know even exists, I get to have just enough fun to start thinking "hey maybe it's over" just in time for someone or something to rip the carpet out from under my feet and I fall on my nose. I stand back up. Deal with it. Have a bit of fun. Get pushed back down again.

My motivation is that I will always stand back up. My torturers will never win, nevermind they my father, brother, uncle, some piece of shit from another dimension, nobody will get best of me. Ever. I'm selfish, I'm jaded, I'm moody, I'm stubborn, and a little bipolar at times. I admit it. Although, I honestly add that if I get to prevent another from going through such pain, I feel pretty good about that.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:01 pm

Ya know . . . most of us are pretty messed up around here.

Natasha · Post by **Natasha** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:18 pm

Yea, I know. Sometimes it even comforts a little knowing it. Right now it's like someone flipped a light switch. I just plunged towards the bottom suddenly. My mind is racing and I can't concentrate. Who knows in 10 seconds I'll be giggling uncontrollably. Or I'll be even more depressed.

I gotta get out of here, breathe some fresh air.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:30 pm

I know it sucks but you can't go alone.

None of us should. There's too much heat on us right now.

DroopyDawg · Post by **DroopyDawg** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:34 pm

The problem is that to be indoctrinated in to this grouping it is usually requires that some pretty nasty stuff happen to you. Even if it doesn't visit you in your house, like it did me, it will find you. It is through this pain that we gain the strenghtto face up to these things. At this point people seem to either become agressive or depressive. It is through constant vigilance that we are able to maintain a facade of normalicy among others.

Droopy

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:40 pm

There have been a few exceptions, that Deathblaster kid for one.

Eilonwy Solstice · Post by **Eilonwy Solstice** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:43 pm

Well, Susan, I’ve always thought about it this way . . . why shouldn’t we want to come down here? (I firmly believe there is a life after death. That being the case, wouldn’t it be logical to have a life before birth as well?)

We don’t remember this “life before birth” if it is real, though. But why should that mean babies would be happier never coming down here in the first place? We don’t “condemn them to a life of misery or pain” anymore than we bless them with wealth and success. Humanity has a potential for good or evil. I don’t know about other women but now that I can have kids . . . I would like to, someday. I can’t explain it scientifically, but if I can reciprocate my mother’s love by cherishing children I may have some day . . . I would like to.

So, my thoughts on your questions are no, it is not wrong. The world does not kill them. We do not curse them to a life of sadness by bearing children into a life that will certainly have problems. Adversity breeds strength.

But . . . I can’t get rid of this feeling I have, Susan. Have you asked Will what he thinks of this?

concrete_Angel · Post by **concrete_Angel** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:52 pm

Aw, Will's kind of a sappy guy when this issue gets discussed. He figures that just because the parents have either abandoned their own hope or tried to kill someone else's, that's no reason to prevent a new life from learning to see what's good and right about the world. He thinks there's enough about living that's good, and just because there is pain, that shouldn't deter us. "The thorns shouldn't prevent us from seeing the beauty of the rose."

DroopyDawg · Post by **DroopyDawg** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:06 pm

Just as long as you remember that the thorns are there. Pain can be hidden by beauty, so you need to teach them to remain on their toes and be ready for what comes.

Droopy

Ethan Skinner · Post by **Ethan Skinner** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:17 pm

Will sounds like a smart bloke.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:21 pm

Dead guys seem to have an advantage in the wisdom department. At least the majority of the time they do.

Hannah · Post by **Hannah** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:47 pm

Hi Sue,

We have a two-part duty to the next generation. The first part is to make the world better for them. The second part is to make them.

As long as we're doing both parts of our duty, there's no reason to feel bad about the trials of life that will come their way. It's all part of the plan.

Hannah

PS: Did Will get to go to Heaven and come back, or is he stuck here waiting?

concrete_Angel · Post by **concrete_Angel** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:26 am

1) If he went to heaven originally, I'm pretty sure he'd be making my life a much bigger hell than it already is just by his whining.

2) YOU shouldn't even be THINKING about the next generation yet, Hannah! At least until ol' dad's dead. :lol:

3) What does this say about the children who are already here, but through no fault of their own, get dumped by the wayside for the sake of "convenience"?

Hannah · Post by **Hannah** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:06 am

Hi Sue,

1) Maybe ya'll should ask him.

2) Most of the girls my age where I came fom are already married and pregnant.

3) That says a lot about their parents, not sure what it says about them.

Hannah

PS: I thought I'd be the same way, but Pa says not until I'm grown up.

concrete_Angel · Post by **concrete_Angel** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:50 pm

1) No.

2) Do you WANT to give Ron a heart attack???

3) But what does that say for the kids?

4) I think he wants to be gone before you're dealing with that stuff. I doubt he's grandpa-ready, after all. :lol:

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:30 am

2) That's why we moved in and took Hannah out when we did. The signs were pointing at an impending marriage.

concrete_Angel · Post by **concrete_Angel** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:13 am

I think a pregnancy would probably be a LITTLE worse than just a marriage. Of course, both at the same time (in some situations) could be really bad.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:26 am

We'll put it this way, neither marriage or pregnacy would have been her choice at the time. More than likely her husband and the father of her child would have daughters or even grand daughters older than her.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:13 pm

I hate cults.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:10 pm

Took the words right outta my mouth there, commerade.

KonThaak · Post by **KonThaak** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:24 am

I hope everyone had a merry Christmas... I'm posting this in this thread, 'cuz of the whole theme of the amount of suffering in this world...

I got Lex a pair of earrings and a matching necklace, an anime DVD, and a book... She didn't really want anything else, and I didn't have much time to try and put together anything to really surprise her, aside from a card.

She got me a couple things for my Wii, a couple games...and a line of ultrasound pictures that were taken on Christmas Eve.

Lately, doctors have been using ultrasound to identify lumps under the skin, to confirm whether or not these lumps are cancerous, to identify what kind of cancer it is if it is cancerous, and to figure out what can be done to treat it. When my mother-in-law was experiencing a lot of pain and swelling in her ankle, they used ultrasound to pinpoint the source of all the pain and swelling, and were able to quickly do something about it.

Well...

...

Lex is pregnant again...so my Christmas was significantly better than my Solstice was.

The due date is August 1. She's currently about 8 weeks in.

It looks like a shrimp.