The Origins of Vampires

Gangrel44 · Post by **Gangrel44** » Mon May 09, 2005 5:12 pm

To those well versed scholars of the Lazlo society I have a perplexing problem when it comes the the origins of Vampires or rather what time in Earth's history when the undead appeared. Some sources say that Vampirism appeared during the late middle ages....other sources say that the plague first appeared during the time of Babylon or even earlier. If there is anyone who can shed some light on this I would the most grateful.

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Mon May 09, 2005 5:56 pm

I'm not certain that I can be of any real help, but as an uneducated guess I would say that Vampires have been around for a lot longer than the middle ages...a fairly common thread is that vampires did not originate on earth (I have encountered them on locations other than earth, so that seems to be fairly true), but I can only make assumptions about where they are originaly from. However, I will see about doing some research into the subject for you.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:59 pm

I can't say when they arrived, but the sooner we get them to leave, the better.

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Tue May 10, 2005 1:23 am

Amen to that.

The Traveler King · Post by **The Traveler King** » Tue May 10, 2005 4:49 pm

My interest in their history extends only so far as it reveals how to contain and eliminate them.

Gangrel44 · Post by **Gangrel44** » Wed May 11, 2005 7:22 pm

Mr. Caliburn has your research come up with anything concrete as of yet?

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Wed May 11, 2005 10:50 pm

I think most of the people on here would agree you're barking up the wrong tree if you're askin' me about research.

I build guns and kill monsters. Not much else.

Gangrel44 · Post by **Gangrel44** » Thu May 12, 2005 5:14 pm

My applogies ...my question was meant for Mr. Darkhold

PSC27 · Post by **PSC27** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:29 pm

Egyptian mythology speaks of a vampiric like mage that could suck the ba (Higher mind or soul) out of people. And Greek and Roman mythology has a few stories of vampiric beings. So, for what it's worth, there is my two coppers worth.

The Traveler King · Post by **The Traveler King** » Sat May 14, 2005 1:42 am

PSC27 wrote:Egyptian mythology speaks of a vampiric like mage that could suck the ba (Higher mind or soul) out of people. And Greek and Roman mythology has a few stories of vampiric beings. So, for what it's worth, there is my two coppers worth.

Be careful, just because something drinks human blood, it doesn't mean its Count Dracula. You've got lamia, the Babylonian lilim, callicantzari, vrykolakes, and other things to contend with as well.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:22 pm

Didn't the priests and priestesses of Bacchus have a ritual involving blood drinking?

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Tue May 17, 2005 1:37 am

Well, I've done some poking around, talked to some old friends, and, thanks to my burns, done a lot of reading...

As far as I can tell, Vampires are not from around here, with various legends and texts linking them to one or more vastly powerful entities...I can't say for certain if these legends are true as none of them have any proof or other information to back them up. As to when they first appeared...Only the Gods could tell you that. I've seen mentions of them in copies of texts that are hundreds and even thousands of years old...and the texts imply that they have been around for longer than that...I just wish our ancestors had kept better records...

Something else that interests me is that for as long as there have been tales of vampires, and as powerful as we know they are, why haven't they long since enslaved/destroyed us? I think it would be rather egotistical of us to assume that our infant race was and has been able to keep them at bay all on our own, which makes me wonder who out there is lending us a hand? and to what ultimate purpose?

I will try and find anything I can that actually has some worth while info for you, as I'm pretty sure this wasn't all that helpful...Vampire lore is sketchy at best. after I heal up a bit from my burns I'll try and make a visit to some old "friends" of mine...the only problem is that summoning D-portals is dangerous and time consuming...

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Tue May 17, 2005 10:14 am

So, if they come from somewhere else is there:

A) A way to send them all back?

B) A way to keep them there?

C) A way to burn their hosue down while they are all trapped inside?

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Tue May 17, 2005 2:05 pm

I sincerely wish I knew. But, like I said, all the info that I have on hand at this moment is from various texts and legends and they don't give me much in the way of practical solutions...And, as I also said, when I've healed up a bit I plan on making a trip to visit some old "friends" and seeing what I can get out of them.

adorabilly · Post by **adorabilly** » Fri May 20, 2005 3:06 am

One of the oldest legends of Vampires that I know of goes back to ancient hebrews. According to the legend, the gods created Adam and his first wife as equals (both from earth), and Adam tired of his EQUAL, he wanted a wife who would listen and obey. So GOD (hebrew) supposedly kicked ADAMS wife out of EDEN. That would be Lilith, she then became so jealous and ambitious that she consorted with, or had to drink blood in order to keep alive. She is credited with being the mother of the first vampires, and demons on earth.

Lets deconstruct this some. Lilith would have been a being of incredible power (demigod, godling maybe), and she was kicked out of her home for wanting equality and swore vengence. she was probably some sort of mage, and probably opened one of the first d portals to where vampires come from. Maybe one of the first victims, of teh vampires. Not too sure, but the legend of lilith is pretty old, and most of the "truth" has been lost. The hebrews have some practices to ward off vampires though in the old torah.

Katsumi Kim · Post by **Katsumi Kim** » Sat May 21, 2005 11:25 pm

Joseph Darkhold said:

Something else that interests me is that for as long as there have been tales of vampires, and as powerful as we know they are, why haven't they long since enslaved/destroyed us? I think it would be rather egotistical of us to assume that our infant race was and has been able to keep them at bay all on our own, which makes me wonder who out there is lending us a hand? and to what ultimate purpose?

Well, there could be any number of things. This Lilith could be smarter than she looks and realizes that in order to get revenge she needs to frighten us or cause us pain and anguish. Also there might be some vampires that say that if all the humans are turned or fed upon then their main food source is gone and that might have to drink blood from other foul places like vermin or animals.

But never the less, someone is helping us out however it might not be those that we expect or want help from like Lilith and these other vampires.

Ammendment2 · Post by **Ammendment2** » Sun May 22, 2005 6:15 pm

Investigations show these...creatures gain power from a bond with some sort of extra-dimensional entity. As far as we have been able to gain from interrogations, there may be several of these entities. Thankfully they cannot gain entry themselves into our world, so they work through intermidiaries. They will choose one such willing host to contain a mere fraction of their power, thus gaining immense power on the mortal plain. The host, or Master then goes about recruiting both the willing and the unwilling into the fold. The more minions abroad, the stronger the tie to the entity. In theory, the tie could become great enough that a crossing might be attemptable, but we have prevented such numbers of vampires from accumulating. The old theory hold true: Cut off the HEAD, and the body dies.....

PSC27 · Post by **PSC27** » Tue May 24, 2005 9:03 pm

Ammendment2 wrote:Investigations show these...creatures gain power from a bond with some sort of extra-dimensional entity. As far as we have been able to gain from interrogations, there may be several of these entities. Thankfully they cannot gain entry themselves into our world, so they work through intermidiaries. They will choose one such willing host to contain a mere fraction of their power, thus gaining immense power on the mortal plain. The host, or Master then goes about recruiting both the willing and the unwilling into the fold. The more minions abroad, the stronger the tie to the entity. In theory, the tie could become great enough that a crossing might be attemptable, but we have prevented such numbers of vampires from accumulating. The old theory hold true: Cut off the HEAD, and the body dies.....

I don't exactly agree with that (I don't dismiss it either)...Reason being: in our research of necromanic journals to try to solve this case on the Isle of Man, we have found that we mages can transform into a vampyric creature by means of a ritual on an eclipse. Still yet, I dismiss nothing! It's late here, and I need to report in to HQ.

The_Unicorn · Post by **The_Unicorn** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:48 pm

FVarious experiences have convinced me that several different types of "vampyres" come from different sources.
And that the best way to deal with them all is to kill them dead.

Celeste Darken · Post by **Celeste Darken** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:37 pm

I would agree with Unicorn's first sentence. It would appear that there is more than one origin of vampires, indicating more than one kindred of vampires. It has been said that I am a "secondary" vampire, one that was created through another. And yet now, after the event I went through with the Cult of Asia Seven, I would not define myself as a mere "secondary" creature. The simple fact that western vampires are injured by staking, while it is said that eastern vampires are not, could also lead one to believe that vampires have no single time or gate to coming to Earth. As for the "entity" theory, I do not believe that is completely correct. I am proof of that, unless this "entity" regularly hides from the vampires that it supposedly gives powers to.
As to Unicorn's second sentence, I reserve the right to defend myself against any who would instigate combat.

Celeste Darken

Willie Long · Post by **Willie Long** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:18 pm

Celeste Darken wrote:As for the "entity" theory, I do not believe that is completely correct. I am proof of that, unless this "entity" regularly hides from the vampires that it supposedly gives powers to.

One of my pen pals was wondering how you could retain your personality.

His first guess is that your mind was not only strong enough to maintain itself beyond the death of your body, but also strong enough to assert control over the vampire-entity when it was disrupted by the death of its master. In other words, you're possessing the possessing entity that's possessing your corpse.

The_Unicorn · Post by **The_Unicorn** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:03 am

Celeste Darken wrote:It has been said that I am a "secondary" vampire, one that was created through another. And yet now, after the event I went through with the Cult of Asia Seven, I would not define myself as a mere "secondary" creature.

I believe the term "secondary" is refering to the fact that you are not a first generation" or "master" vampire but are thus a "second generation" vampire, as you didn't deal directly with the "entity."
That's what I 've gleaned from those who believe in the entity theory, anyway.....

The simple fact that western vampires are injured by staking, while it is said that eastern vampires are not...

I've seen plenty of asian vampires die by a staking, and more than a few Europians who wouldn't.So I'd be cautious about assuming a false West/East dichotomy exists here.

As to Unicorn's second sentence, I reserve the right to defend myself against any who would instigate combat.

Don't we all.... :roll:

Dante Andel · Post by **Dante Andel** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:37 am

I've seen plenty of asian vampires die by a staking, and more than a few Europians who wouldn't.So I'd be cautious about assuming a false West/East dichotomy exists here.

My Grandfather always said looks can be decieving in terms of were's and vampires, just because they look like they have an asian background doesnt mean that they have the eastern strain of vampirism.

The_Unicorn · Post by **The_Unicorn** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:53 am

Dante Andel wrote:
I've seen plenty of asian vampires die by a staking, and more than a few Europians who wouldn't.So I'd be cautious about assuming a false West/East dichotomy exists here.

My Grandfather always said looks can be decieving in terms of were's and vampires, just because they look like they have an asian background doesnt mean that they have the eastern strain of vampirism.

Gee, ya think?
:roll:

I know well the difference between "Asian looking" and Asian Type of Undead.

The Watcher In Shadows · Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:37 pm

Joseph Darkhold wrote: I think it would be rather egotistical of us to assume that our infant race was and has been able to keep them at bay all on our own, which makes me wonder who out there is lending us a hand? and to what ultimate purpose?

I can assure you that there are other beings assisting the human race, I can also assure you that their goals are good and just.

As to answer your main question. All of my research indicates that vampires have been around almost as long as humanity.
There are also certainly vampires on other worlds, as I have *ahem* "dealt" with them in other places in the past.

Rowan · Post by **Rowan** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:47 pm

What kind of problem would require such knowledge? Could a discovery of the origin on vampires give or take power?

FriarJohn · Post by **FriarJohn** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:40 pm

The Lilith Legend first appears in late Classical Jewish writings that collected the "Oral Torah" - the Quabala. She's not in the Zohar Book, but it escapes me which writing she's in, and I'm never "googeling" the name of a supernatural nasty again -never ends well for me. What many scholars of the text in question postulate that her appearance in that text is an attempt to bring a very old and nasty demonic/divine entity into their cosmology. Her roots extend well back, under various guises, and seems to be as old as the cult of Astart. She may well be the wild woman of the Endiku story.
Not all of the Lilith stories are the same either. Some of the Rabbis see her as the same type of creature as the "serpent" who tempted Adam and Eve. A few of the, really disturbing, texts maker her out to be some sort of quippeleth.

There is one constant though, she detests men and children. She also tends to show all of the classic vampire "stuff" Mayhaps she could be one of these "powers" that makes Vampires?

Tms3 · Post by **Tms3** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:54 pm

FriarJohn wrote: She's not in the Zohar Book, but it escapes me which writing she's in, and I'm never "googeling" the name of a supernatural nasty again -never ends well for me.

I smell and interesting story there friarjohn

I have also heard of her being linked with the Succubi and insucckubi. and I have also heard the title mother of demons applied to her. It is posable that she could have been ether one of the first master vampires or she could have been the source of the master vampires form what I know of the leganeds I tend to think the first one may be closer to being true. that she may have been a early master vampire... or should could have become a vampire like demon.... we do know that she has been known to sudince man in order to conseave demons. and her attacking human children is revenge for man slaying her demonic children.. could that be a description of some one trying to find willing people to be come master or common vampires... The other question is what or the odds that she is still with us today...... If so how powerful could she be....

on that same note I have also heard Vamperism referred to as the Mark of Cain

PeterSchnauss · Post by **PeterSchnauss** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:12 am

Though I've only met people claiming to be vampires (I can't qualify anyone who LARPS at a coffeehouse as legit), alas I've not actually met anyone...or anything that I would/could classify as a vampire.

I've run into what I would consider spiritual evil of a predatory nature, but no fangs or suckage ensued. Thankfully in that case...being a coward has it's privileges.

From my limited readings of Gohlhoffen's "Hamer Van De Vampieren" and Lucio Salvati's "Zanne di Notte" it seems that vampires are not wholly of this earth (Biblical or otherwise). They could either be an extra-dimensional parasitic crossover or perhaps like hyper-literal, devote Catholic, Salvati's rambling take, a plague issued forth from humanities corrupt soul.

Whatever your take/history on the subject of vampires, I've yet to read or witness anything that really compels me.

Tms3 · Post by **Tms3** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:11 pm

Also if you look at the lore around christian excommunication.. the dead can enter heaven nor hell. there are some who say that could create a vampire I really don't know as if it is a curse for G-D.... but I think that would be more of a Jewish style Dybbuk. the soul of a human whom be-leaves him self to be so damned because if there actions in life that the think there is no place for them in heaven and the refuse to go to hell, so they become a quasi-demon capable of possing the living

The Origins of Vampires

The Origins of Vampires

One of the oldest legends dates back to the ancient hebrews

Knowledge is good. Knowledge with a purpose can be better.

Re: The Origins of Vampires

Re: The Origins of Vampires

Re: The Origins of Vampires

Re: The Origins of Vampires