Where do we draw the line?

DarKnyht · Post by **DarKnyht** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:16 pm

I thought now would be a good time to bring up the subject, since we seem to be dealing with human threats these days. Are we above the laws of the people we claim to be protecting? And if not, when do we cross the line?

For example, according to Wikipedia, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sombra_Negra]
Sombra Negra[/url] or "Black Shadow," is a group of vigilantes, mostly retired police officers and military personnel in El Salvador, whose sole duty is to cleanse the country of "impure" social elements. They specifically target the MS-13 gang, and have a reputation for being extremely violent.

To me this group has crossed the line. They are no longer letting the legal system and laws the people have set up work. Are we starting to become the same thing?

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:30 pm

Most of the things we deal with, even when they include a human component, don't have a corresponding law.

How do you charge an Evil Summoner? What for? Slavery? Endangering the Public? How do you even begin building a case against him?

How do you arrest someone like Dym whose activities manipulate entire governments and span the globe?

Work out the practical problems then we'll get to the philosophical ones.

GhostSpider · Post by **GhostSpider** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:53 pm

Have to agree with Bert, the law simply doesn't take into account the things we deal with.

DarKnyht · Post by **DarKnyht** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:14 pm

This is also a question of what happens when you become as dangerous to society as the things you are protecting it from?

I agree sometimes vigilante justice needs to be done, but shouldn't the system be given it's chance to work first?

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:27 pm

No. The system is fundamentally broken because it doesn't recognize the things we deal with.

Koralth · Post by **Koralth** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:50 pm

I certainly hope, DarKnyht, that you aren't suggesting that it would be wrong to off someone like Jeremiah Dark, who has proven time and time again that not only is he psychotic, but he knows how to hurt a person the most, and that he is very good at what he does. I agree, for the most part, that those who go against the law need to be tried in a court of law... But some just go too far, and deserve no chance to hurt others. If he went to trial, he could use nothing but his mind to continue to hurt others, and I highly doubt that he can sit through a day of trial without getting an urge to kill something. This kind of psychopath cannot have a trial, because said trial, and the waiting associated with it, would give him a chance to continue to hurt people.

As for the Dym situation, I've been caught up in my own problems a little too much to pay too terribly much attention to it, but as someone else said, such an organization would be difficult to try, based solely on the size of it.

Zack was discussing the Loki situation, and the Dark Voice situation with me also. These individuals have demons and the such protecting their every action. How does a courtroom stand up against magic or demons? These ideas are so preposterous that I don't think any court would even consider them.

Zack wondered for a long while about the case involving one Celeste Darken, and the murder thereof. He personally sympathizes with Ron Caliburn, but wondered about taking the case to trial, because the law must be followed, but could not think about any way to make a murder charge stick against a vampire. It's still a lot to think about, magic, vampires, murderous fragments, corrupt governmental offshoots, demon servants... It's a lot to swallow, for someone new to this group... But there's just no practical way to make these things work without some sort of legal reform, and how are you going to push legal reform pertaining to the supernatural through?

Sorry about the lengthy post, but discussing law and the such helps me to get my mind off of things...

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:54 pm

I give the law and legal system every chance I cn to deal with what it is designed to deal with.

I consider it my job to take care fo the rest.

DarKnyht · Post by **DarKnyht** » Thu May 10, 2007 7:44 am

There are ways to deal with threats that does not deal in murder. If I understand it correctly, J.D. is a part of a person's personality and not really a human to begin with, so there is no concern about the law there. There is no law that applies.

You claim that these people are outside the law, but does that mean that we are also outside the law? When do we decide that they have moved outside the system in place? I can see the line when they are not human, there is no laws that govern them and most likely there is no official documents to prove their existence or evidence of it once they are killed.

I know there are ways to remove dym without evidence. I suggested one that would be quite effective by using my abilities. That is part of the problem, sometimes it seems that we are not even attempting to deal with the problem through the system. Our initial response is to go kill.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Thu May 10, 2007 11:06 am

It appears dym is not human either.

Deathblaster · Post by **Deathblaster** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:55 pm

No Lines! we don't draw lines! Kill 'em all!!!!!

DarKnyht · Post by **DarKnyht** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:01 pm

Deathblaster, I see your mom gave you back your computer.

Deathblaster · Post by **Deathblaster** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:03 pm

least I had one.

DarKnyht · Post by **DarKnyht** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:08 pm

Wow, and that time away has done nothing to change your unique personality.

KonThaak · Post by **KonThaak** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:16 pm

Be thankful for his unique personality. Personally, I'd rather see him around than these damned asshats who try way too hard to strive for the ideal of being "evil".

He's some harmless high school kid, trolling our boards.

They're out killing people in the name of some "higher calling".

Who would you rather have here? If you had to have one or the other, I mean.

Yeah, I'm psychic enough to have heard that answer coming. =P

GhostSpider · Post by **GhostSpider** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:55 pm

I'd take the Voice over DB anyday. At least I know the Voice's agenda, but DB is just too much of an unknown quantity.

DarKnyht · Post by **DarKnyht** » Wed May 16, 2007 10:49 pm

True enough. I can live with Deathblaster, although I probably would be willing to pay his parents to take his internet access away from him again.

Koralth · Post by **Koralth** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:10 am

I warned you all, didn't I? I said he'd be back if we mentioned him...

Speaking of homecomings, I'm back, too.

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:24 am

Welcome back Zack.

How ya holding up?

Koralth · Post by **Koralth** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:24 am

It's a little... shaky right now. I'm just lucky that I've had such great people helping me out, lately. Thanks, everyone.

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:26 am

How's my team doing in your neck of the woods. I ordered them to specially keep an eye on you and Ms. Orange-Text.

Koralth · Post by **Koralth** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:44 am

Actually, they're doing really well. Crimerates were on the rise due to all of the anxiety that comes with the string of violent crimes in the area, but it seems like things are calming down little by little. I think we all appreciate the help.

Bert_the_Turtle · Post by **Bert_the_Turtle** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:16 am

I'm glad things are returning to normalcy.

Deathblaster · Post by **Deathblaster** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:26 pm

GhostSpider wrote:I'd take the Voice over DB anyday. At least I know the Voice's agenda, but DB is just too much of an unknown quantity.

I allways go for quality over quality myself.

dym · Post by **dym** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:32 pm

Deathblaster wrote:
GhostSpider wrote:I'd take the Voice over DB anyday. At least I know the Voice's agenda, but DB is just too much of an unknown quantity.

I allways go for quality over quality myself.

Obviously.

:idea:

How would you like to do some work in Russia?

Deathblaster · Post by **Deathblaster** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:43 pm

dym wrote:

How would you like to do some work in Russia?

What kind of work are you talking about? I have reservatins about someone naming himself "Dimwit"...

dym · Post by **dym** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:46 pm

Enforcement type work against people who do bad things.

Anyone named Deathblaster has to be good at deathblasting. And your illiteracy makes me think you would be very good for the sorts of job I would pay you to do... no readin', ritin', or 'rithmitic necessary.

Deathblaster · Post by **Deathblaster** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:53 pm

And 'bad" is all realtive right?

Koralth · Post by **Koralth** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:58 pm

DB, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this kind of a deal would be a bad idea.

Just ignore the offer and go on.

GhostSpider · Post by **GhostSpider** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:08 pm

Yeah, don't give us a reason to hunt you down and kill you. Well, don't give us another reason.

KonThaak · Post by **KonThaak** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:52 pm

I find it amusing that He Who Inhales is offering a job to a person who, according to the popular opinion, is most likely a high school kid who thinks this is all fantasy make-believe.

Then again, if the Inhaler were looking for someone stupid to take as a hostage or leave as an example...well, he's still looking in the wrong places.