• We Were Not Alone

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:06 am**

Once upon a time there were more than one human species on the planet. Recently genetic evidence has unveiled a human species that was previously unknown and is only currently known through the genetic record.

Okay, so once you get past realizing that humans will have sex with anything, one must wonder about this mysterious human species. There are many myths of people who took brides or husbands from the other side. In fact there are stories of human hybridization with demons such as the Succubus and Incubus. Some to which I have some first hand experience.

Then there are biblical stories that tell us about the Nephilim who were born from the sons of god and the daughters of man.

Here's the link by the way.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:49 am**

Indeed, there are numerous mythological accounts of such. My own research into therianthropes indicated that some cross breeding has occurred at points and possibly may be the origin of the species. It is possible that the results of such relationships may be the origins of tales of anthropomorphic beings such as minotaurs and satyrs.

The unstoppable Viking Berserkers and fearsome Aztec Jaguar Warriors may have been humans imbued with a small degree of therianthrope genetic material. Over time the powers of both of these groups waned and indeed they both ceased to exist in the fifteenth to sixteenth centuries, possibly as the bloodlines that empowered them became too diluted to have any effect.

Had my records not been lost I'd bring up a fairly large list of more specific examples from historical and more recent times.

Posted: **Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:30 pm**

Some of the creatures from the other side use sex as a bait, a lure and a means of predation. It's not surprising that there are some left overs.

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:21 pm**

There is also the possibility Dad that some such being might find mortals attractive, alluring or even actually fall in love with them. Some of those tales involve beings of great power shedding their immortality to be with the human they love.

Other tales of course involve the mortal being raised to join their immortal partner.

Hannah Knight.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:57 pm**

In references to Last Moon's remarks regarding Therians, humans have been depicting hybrid human and animal creatures for at least 40,000 years. For reference, behavioural modernity is believed to have occurred 50,000 years ago. That is, human cultural and presumably intellectual complicity took a huge leap forward (perhaps suddenly). Archaic humans that look just like us appeared as far back as 200,000 years ago.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:22 pm**

Alright, so my magical master, Dr. James, has noticed that I am posting during school hours. Despite my protests that this only happens between classes at lunch, during spares or when I’m done may assignments, he feels that if I have time to post at all, I should endeavour to post academically thought out material. Therefore I will continue to expand on a hypothesis that I have been working on under his tutelage.

The question is, how did Therians or were-folk come to exist? What precisely is their relationship with humans? Are they a separate species altogether or are they more closely related? Is the difference similar to that between domestic dogs and wolves or closer, such as the difference between German Sheppard’s and Golden Retrievers?

My hypothesis is that Therians are humans that have been magically altered and that those magical alterations are now inherited traits.

So the question is, how might this have been accomplished? A related question is, could the process be repeated. I will answer the second question first. We have all heard of the curse of lycanthropy. This curse takes an otherwise normal human and transforms them into (most commonly) a werewolf. Therefore the possibility of a human becoming a Therian exists and can be repeated although I suspect that the curse is an imperfect attempt to repeat what happened possibly tens of thousands of years ago—though I must also acknowledge the possibility that the curse itself perhaps in a mutated form (such as how viruses mutate) may have caused the natural and true breeding Therians.

Therefore my hypothesis is that humans existed first and that Therians somehow split of from modern homo-sapiens. Given that Therians register as being supernatural, I propose that this split was not the result of natural selection or other mundane biological process. Instead I believe that it came about as a result of magic. The curse of lycanthropy appears to be an indicator of this process. I propose that there are two magical means by which this could be accomplished. These means are not mutually exclusive and it is indeed possible that they both occurred independently—and perhaps simultaneously.

The first means would require divine intervention. That is a powerful entity seeking worship from mortals and having the ability to alter humans in a profound and lasting way. There is a great deal of support for this line of thinking in various cultures and religions as the ability to alter humans or invest them with the power of animals is often attributed to deities. It is therefore possible for one or more deities to have endowed one or more groups of humans with the ability to transform into animals and to take on the traits of animals to increase their chances of survival in a hostile and competitive environment. Perhaps this was done in exchange for worship.

Without being able to directly interview the deities themselves to determine their methodology, there is very little point on speculating on this further beyond the acknowledging the possibility that this happened. Too little is known about these entities and their abilities and limitations to build a hypothesis into a fruitful theory.

There is another possibility however. One that can be explored and perhaps even tested. That possibility is that humans themselves used magic to recreate themselves into Therians. This may be possible from the observation of possibly naturally occurring curses (such as the Native American belief in the Windigo), encountering creations of the gods or simply by magical experimentation. I will explore the possibility of magical exploration.

In my selection of spells there are incantations that are designed to give me select attributes of animals. The magical abilities to fly like a bird, swim like a fish or see like an eagle are all examples. These sorts of spells have their roots in what my mentor calls shamanistic magic (a term that my previous trainers also used). Shamanistic magic requires a connection to the natural world on a very intimate and primal level. The hermetic spells that I have learned are far more limited versions of what is possible for true shamans.

These are the very basic beginnings of magical attempts to merge human and animal traits. I have a ferret named Mr. Baggins with whom I share a very intimate spiritual bond. As a result of this bond, I am able to experience things that he experiences and understand things that he wishes to communicate to me. Likewise, I am able to make him understand what I want him to know or do. We also understand each others limitations and abilities so that we are able to work together in a unique partnership.

Perhaps even more telling is the ability of some druids who are apparently able to transform into animals themselves. An ability very much like that of Therians.

So we have established that magic can indeed allow a human to gain animal abilities and even the ability to transform into an animal. The missing link in my theory thus far however is how using magic to create abilities similar to those of Therians went the extra step to actually becoming a Therian. That is, being able to pass those abilities onto offspring without having to train them in a magical discipline. The missing link in my hypothesis is a magical trait that can be inherited from parent to offspring.

Posted: **Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:29 am**

Interesting theory.

How do you account for the presence of anthropomorphic animals and shape shifters in human mythology that are supposed to be older than human kind and are often credited with such acts as providing humans with the secrets of magic, creating humans or even creating the universe. If humans created these things, wouldn't the creator spirit therefore be human rather than animal like?

Hannah Knight

Posted: **Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:39 am**

The order of things is pretty irrelevant. This is our world and home. Things coming uninvited and unwanted from the beyond have no place here.

Inhuman things of this world will need to figure out a way to live peacefully with us or will find out what happens to those that stand in our way.

Posted: **Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:23 am**

Hannah,

That's easy and what you're pointing out actually supports what I've been saying. If human mages created Therians, then they would have started with themselves. Or perhaps a few test subjects and then themselves. So that their new bodies would be what is remembered through the generations as being the creators.

Furthermore, once you have Therians, you have a race of beings that are long lived. If you have a being that you remember unchanging your whole life, that your parents and grandparents remember as unchanging (or not noticibly changing) for their entire lives and they have stories of their grandparents remembering these unchanging folk, it is a very short step from "They have always been with us" to "They were here before us". Especially if you consider that this may have happened in cultures that did not have a written language. It is further reinforced by the idea that with these beings living so long, mere attrition would make them elders of the communities they lived in. They would have made or strongly influenced tribal law. They would also have greatly influenced tribal religions and culture. Their creator god worship could have started out as nothing more as ancestor veneration or worship.

But I'm glad you brought up religion. Not all religions have anthromorphic humanoids. Or if they do, they were added later. Some notable religions have human figure creators (Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."). So their arose human religions that are not initially created by any anthromophic god images. And that such images (in the form of spirits of one form or another) only come later. This is what you would expect to see if my theory was correct. Some religions and cultures would have these beleifs and others would not, at least not until influenced by those cultures that did.

So accounting for it just creates more support for my theory.

Also Papa, knowledge is never irrelevent. Especially if we discover that some of these other beings were invited or even created by us.

Further, peaceful coexistence is a two way street. We must also adapt. And that will require mutual understanding.

That having been said, I still maintain that human culture arose first. It pretty much had to.

Posted: **Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:46 am**

I think is at least some merit to your suggestion, niece of mine. One example that comes to mind for me is the Navajo yee naaldlooshii. A witch (skin-walkers included) gains their power by breaking cultural taboos. Assuming that is true, it's difficult to have skin-walkers without cultural norms to break.

On the other hand, maybe it was the animals that were the magical ones here. Many Native American groups have legends that bears themselves were able to shed their fur into a human form, and marry women whose offspring could take both forms. Turkic people of the Steppe believe that they are directly descended from wolves, through a she-wolf nursing a babe.

As far as a magical means to creating a bond, I might suggest you look at blood-bond initiation rites, where those coming-of-age rite is finding and killing their 'totem animal', after which point the spirit of man and animal form an unbreakable bond.

Posted: **Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:50 am**

While many people know that I'm well versed in the sciences and technologies, I'm also something of an amatuer historian. I also have some insights into this subject. I have been privy to historical documents and information I'm sure few others have been. I also have some unique field work done on the subject.

I would like to discuss Atlantis for a few moments if I may.

In Plato's account, it is reported to be a land given to and dedicated to Poisdon, something that I actually doubt and was probably added by the Greeks later. What Plato was mainly concerned with was that these ancient Atlanteans had fallen from grace. They were not devout people as were the Greeks of that time were (allegedly). And so the Atlanteans were punished for their godless ways.

I have reason to believe that the ancient Atlanteans had no notable religion at all. They were a group of humans that revelled in their own knowledge and accomplishments. They became proud and arrogant (traits/flaws that I know I share) because of these accomplishments. These are not people I see as bowing down to any God, anthromorphic or otherwise.

The old stories all agree that some massive calamity struck Atlantis and it was lost to us forever. Or maybe not. They were a group of humans who were isolated from the rest of humanity on an island for an unknown amount of time (tens of thousands of years? Longer?). I have encountered some psychics who claim that the ancient Atlanteans were another 'race' of human. While I thought at the time they were merely promoting racist ideas, perhaps there was more to than I assumed. Perhaps it is this group of people who are contributing the so called lost species of human DNA.

Imagine, thousands of years ago a cataclysm destroying their island home, with scattered survivors cast out into the world. Spread out in small groups and likely isolated from one another, they would no doubt eventually have integrated with other groups of humans. These refugees may or may not have had some secrets of their people with them. Certainly different groups would have access to different skill sets and resources.

Each different group could have become a seed for some other, future culture, with a basis on what they specifically had access to. There might even have been some commonalities on opposite sides of the Atlantic. They would have used the resources already available in existing human populations, including shamanastic traditions. Some would have tried to recreate knowledge their compatriots once had, with varying levels of success.

Some of these refugees might have even seemed like gods (especially if they had 'biblical' lifespans.

It's really easy to speculate on a number of possibilities with regards to contributions that these people may have made both genetically and culturally.

As for Cynthia's hypothesis. It's an interesting one and I do tend to agree that it is likely that human civilization arose first and that Therians arose later, likely created from human stock. I would tend to expect divine intervention. Or perhaps extremely powerful magic not normally seen today. But perhaps in the past, there was a group of humans with extraordinary understanding of magic, long lives and a motivation to create humans with hybrid animal abilities. A group of people who would have had reasons to be on both sides of the Atlantic, perhaps.

Of course, this is all speculation and hypothesis right now. More investigation and research will be necessary to find the evidence required to make a workable theory.

Posted: **Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:43 pm**

Cynthia,

I think you are making evidence fit your theory rather than creating a theory that fits the evidence.

We unfortunately have no physical evidence of when Therianthropes actually came to be. We have no fossil evidence because their remains are physically identical to animal or human remains. We have no archeological evidence because many human cultures treated animals as objects of veneration or imitation.

The legends of humanity place the origin of Therianthrops before, simultaneously or after the origin of humanity. Due to these contradictions its impossible to say that one is definitively more accurate than the others.

The best that can be said for your theory is that no definitive contradictory evidence exists. But there are other, alternate theories that the same can be said about.

So instead, how about we focus on the fact that the Therianthropes exist, instead of how they came to be? At least until some actual evidence arises.

Hannah Knight

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:26 am**

Honestly Hannah, I don't know what your problem is.

First of all, it's a hypothesis, not a theory.

Secondly, I don't need to make the evidence fit because it doesn't need to be made to fit. It already does fit.

Third, you're wrong about human traditions about Therians. ALL human traditions put them as coming later. They're not even known as transforming creatures until the middle ages. Some animal spirits and gods are known to exist in even ancient cultures that may be Therian in nature but that cannot be shown to be definitely true.

What we do know to be definitely true is this, an ordinary human can be made into a Therian. A process for doing this is known. The fossil record conclusively shows that humans evolved on this world, with out the need of any creation story. That is the evidence and the facts and it is from those facts that I proposed my hypothesis. I need more evidence before I can call it a proper theory but I've yet to see one single thing that suggests that this hypothesis couldn't or isn't true.

Finally I must say I take issue with your suggestion that I just drop this and focus only on the fact that they exist. Evidence doesn't just 'arise'. It is suspected to exist and then hunted for relentlessly until found. Nor is there anything about my proposing of this theory or pursuing more evidence around it that subtracts from focusing that Therians exist. Indeed, it pursues proof that they exist and fuller more complete answers to how and why they exist.

The purpose of this site is to seek the truth about the supernatural and that is what I am doing.

I could go on about occulms razor and everything else that supports the rise of humanity first on this world but I'm pretty ticked off right now.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:24 pm**

I admire your passion Cynthia but science also requires a cool head.

You have a hypothesis. You have no reason to immediately discount it. You will want to gather evidence for it. You can also take a closer look at it and see if it or any part of it can be tested. If it can be tested, the next question you face is, can it be done ethically.

Good luck.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:36 am**

The whole hypothesis is probably hard to prove. I might be able to prove the largest keystone of my argument however. That is you can create a Therian from a Human. The known method is an imperfect curse so can't be taken as absolute proof. It could be considered as good evidence if a method were found or reproduced to create A Therian from Human stock.

I propose that the criteria would be:
1. The new Therian be indistinguishable in every way from other Therians of the same type.
-including ability to transform into both hybrid and animal forms at will.
-no involuntary transformation due to the phase of the moon.
-retention of intellect during all three transformations.
-enhanced abilities and senses.
-regenerative ability equal to known Therians.
-invulnerability to most weapons.
-allergic/vulnerable to silver.
-ability to breed true with others of like kind.

2. Does not pass on the condition through the same vectors as the curse.

Of course this raises a very serious problem for me and I think Matthew knew it would when he mentioned ethical delima. Would it be right to create this process? More importantly, would it be right to apply it to living humans, even willing volunteers? Furthermore, one cannot be sure of a process until it is tested. In testing, unfortunate mistakes could and probably would be made.

There is another avenue to consider, and that would be trying to create Therians from animals. While most stories of were-beasts (that is specifcally identified human to animal shape changers) indicate a human that is cursed, there is an exception. Sometimes the Were-Hyena of Africa is said to be animals disguising themselves as people. The reverse is also said (that they're people who transform into Hyenas). Doing it from this angle would not disprove my hypothesis but it would suggest the possibility of either animals being elevated with a human form or perhaps a multiple origin hypothesis to todays Therian population.

I don't feel like being a mommy so I won't be electing to grant sentience to animals at this time, even if it can be done. Maybe when I'm older.

However, there are other angles I can pursue along these lines.

It is possible that others have pursued this line of research. Indeed, there is concern that it has in fact happened. Viewing that research would no doubt provide insights into this situation.

It is also possible that evidence of past enchantments linger in the progeny, even many generations later. I'm not sure how I would go about researching this but I think it may be a possibility nontheless. Sort of like an Arcane CSI, or perhaps more accurately an Arcane gene sequencer. Reverse engineering the clues of what happened by studying what remains today. Of course, that path might also lead to the process of creation again, which opens a can of worms again.

I think that the Origin of the Therian people is something worth knowing. I think it will take multiple disciplines to unlock the hidden secrets so I will not be able to do it alone. There are a number of barriers to overcome if this is to be learned. In addition to those challenges, there are avenues of investigation I cannot in good conscious pursue. I choose to see this as an additional challenge to be embraced and overcome.

Personally, I hope to discover that the Therians are indeed our cousins. It will make co-existence seem less impossible. Perhaps it will help some see them as people, some who are good and some who are bad. And maybe it will help them change their views about us as well.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:17 pm**

You caught one ethical dilemma but missed another. I have mentioned elsewhere that my family and I were able to reverse a case of lycanthropy. Because sometimes what is made can be unmade.

So if you manage to prove that Therians were made and you discover the process by which it is accomplished, it is also possible that you, or someone following your research, might find a way to reverse the process. Some might look at that as a cure. Others might see it as a fate much worse than death. People on both sides are bound to try and impose their views upon others, perhaps violently.

I'm not going to tell you not to pursue evidence for your hypothesis. Indeed, I might even help since it is an interesting idea. But before you start on this journey of discovery, try and consider all the possible ramifications.

Posted: **Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:50 pm**

To be honest, I'd like it to be right. I can imagine the angst that would occur amoung the werebeasts if they found out that they started off as some human's pet.

Posted: **Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:17 am**

Papa!

That's not the gist of my hypothesis. If I'm right, then Therians have been people all along.

Even if I'm wrong, you should try to be nicer. Regardless of their origins, they're intelligent, sentient beings who have wants, fears, dreams, flaws and virtues just the same as we do.

Posted: **Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:45 pm**

I somehow doubt that if werebeasts are man-made, the process was done on humans initially. Much easier to tinker with a few animals than a human from an ethical standpoint if nothing else.

Posted: **Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:51 pm**

Dad,

It's just the sort of angst you're relishing that I was hoping to avoid. The way humans treat animals, by caging them, putting them on display, forcing them to do tricks, subjecting them to experiments and mass euthanasia . . . think about what that looks like to a being who identifies as much or more with the animals being subjected to such treatment than they do with humanity.

I would confidently say most of them are more scared of us than we are of them.

Hannah Knight

PS: Sorry sis, I was trying to avoid this sort of stuff earlier without being explicit about it. I do of course want you to explore and learn to your heart's desire, but the answers in this case are going to be almost impossible to get and could easily cause further problems.

Posted: **Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:21 pm**

There is quite a bit of merit to the idea that animals can be given human levels of intelligence and form.

That's about all I can say about the subject without violating Mr. Blue's prohibition against contamination.

On what I am sure is an unrelated subject, how are Blackie and Sassy doing?

Posted: **Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:31 pm**

I see what you did there, Robyn.

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:22 pm**

Show me an animal who contracts lycanthropy turning into a werebeast, and I'll amend my hypothesis. In the meantime the evidence still suggests a human genesis for werebeasts.

Posted: **Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:42 am**

Your hypothesis is interesting, but there are definitely some difficulties in it. Theiranthropes are more than just a single breed of creatures. Indeed some members of the classification were clearly never human. Creatures such as the Selkie, the Kitsune or the Encantado are clearly animals capable of manifesting a human shape.

However, you seem to be more concerned with classical werebeasts rather than the wider category of Therianthropes. In that case, you may find this brief review of the place of the weretiger in Asian mythology interesting. The origins of weretigers are varied and while powerful magicians are able to transform themselves and evil spirits might bestow a transformation curse, not all were tigers begin as humans. To the Thais, a weretiger was the result when a normal tiger at too much human flesh. To other groups, some groups of humans were viewed as disguised beasts and could revert to their natural shapes through magical or natural talents.

Of course the truth is lost to the age of legends and myths, but the origins of therianthropes are varied and trying to classify them as humans that become animals or animals that become human risks ignoring the fact that they are truly something different and unique unto themselves.

Posted: **Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:07 pm**

As you surmised, I am only interested in traditional were-beast types.

It's an interesting article and adds to what I've been researching. It might support a multiple origin hypothesis for the werefolk. Still, we're talking about stories and folklore here. As with lycanthropy, I would like to see or at least get some information on the actual mechanisms that can cause these transformations.

If I start looking at a multiple origin hypothesis seriously, then at some point I will have to explain how they came together and became organized. It could be as natural as like with like or it could be due to some outside agency helping them find each other.

Given how far apart they all are (around the world), I would suggest that they were at some point brought together in one place via magic. The most logical place to my mind would be some form of astral habitat.

Finding that habitat would be very useful, if it ever existed or still exists.

Posted: **Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:00 pm**

I need to go over my parents journals. I seem to recall them mentioning some cursed artefact or another that could transform the user into a werewolf. What I don't recall off the top of my head is whether the transformation was into a cursed lycanthrope type werewolf or into a so called true were wolf.

I know that it was referred to as being a cursed item, but that's not quite the same as being the curse of lycanthropy. I'll get back to you all once I've found the references.

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:16 pm**

Here are some statistics on natural animal populations in the world. I provide these with the stipulation that these numbers have no direct correlation to Therian populations. Most Therians live in human communities and alongside human populations. Their breeding and survival is entirely separate from those in the wild.

There are between 16,000 and 47,000 African Lions in the world.
There are between 1,500 and 3,500 Tigers in the world.
There are about 15,000 Jaguars in the world.
There are approximately 200,000 Brown Bears in the world.
There are between 20,000 and 25,000 Polar Bears in the world.
There are twice as many Black Bears as there are all other types in the world.
There are approximately 150,000 wolves in the world.

If one were to take these numbers at face value then one would think that the most common were-creature would be the were-bear but encounters with were-wolves are far more common. It is still possible that were-bears are more common but they are harder to track due to being more solitary. It may be possible that were-wolves are more common because their social patterns lend themselves to interacting with human populations than do the social patterns of were-bears.

We live in a world that today, there may well be more were-tigers walking around than actual tigers. As the natural population of actual tigers continue to decline, it may become harder for were-tigers to remain undetected unless they always stay in their human form.

What all the animals above have in common is that their numbers and habitat have all declined in the last century. Conservation efforts are in full swing to try and save some of these species (notably the Tiger) from extinction.

I hope that these animals are all saved from extinction and will continue to populate the Earth indefinitely. Preferably in wild habitats with as little interference from man as possible.

I actually had more to say on the subject but the post is growing far too large so I will cut it off here and post elsewhere later when all my thoughts are properly organized.

Posted: **Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:01 pm**

After searching, I found the references I was looking for regarding the magical artifact. It is a talisman that grants enhanced senses, not unlike a wolf. However it also bestows the curse of lycanthropy after months of use. The curse can be removed through magical means if the talisman is destroyed. The lycanthropy curse resembles the curse as is generally known.

However in my research I also came across references to a spell that allegedly grants a human a hybrid form for a short time. There is no curse associated with it but it is also very temporary and does not grant an animal form.

Still, the spell, if it actually exists, could be an imperfect copy of an earlier ritual or attempt recreate more powerful magic. Alternately it could be an earlier attempt at creating a Therian that failed in the ultimate goal.

However, it's just as likely an attempt to level the playing field between humans and Therians in a physical confrontation.

Still, if the spell exists and could be discovered, I think it would be compelling evidence for Cynthia's hypothesis. Not proof positive but at least confirmation that it's at least possible.

Posted: **Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:41 pm**

This is interesting. I just found a reference to a ritual where a therianthrope exchanges blood with a human, causing the human to become a therianthrope themselves. Apparently only very deserving individuals were invited to participate in this ritual. It's definitely not related to the curse of lycanthropy.

The ritual itself may or may not be a myth. It seems unlikely that it's still being used if it ever existed and it may not be known anymore.

It might explain why you have werewolves who are caucasian skinned in human form and take the form of North American, not European, wolves.

Posted: **Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:27 pm**

Well if Lycanthropy is transmitted through a bite it makes sense that blood or saliva (and possibly other bodily fluids) could be a medium for transfer under the right circumstance.

Hannah Knight

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