Wanted: Empty Brass

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:31 pm

I am in need of empty brass in the .600 Nitro Express calibre for a little experiment I've been working on. So far the experiment has been working nicely but finding empty brass in that rather obsolete calibre is proving to be difficult. I have no difficulty getting live ammo, but it is too damn expensive to buy it just for the brass (the ammo goes for 216.00 dollars for five rounds). If any of you (but you Ron in particular) have any contacts who can get me the empty brass, I would be most appreciative.

Tabloid Hound · Post by **Tabloid Hound** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:41 pm

Im sorry, But my area of help is information and research, not weaponry. But I wish you good luck with your experiements, and I'm sure Ron can help you somehow.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:38 pm

I'd be interested in seeing what you are experimenting with. If I like I might try to shoe horn it into a 12 or 20 guage.

I know some folks who roll their own .600's but by the time they've done their tinkering they are paying probably double the rate for commercially available.

I might be able to get a decent wholesale price on the brass, but it might mean we have to make a bulk purchase.

The Traveler King · Post by **The Traveler King** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:07 am

If it's access to machining equipment that you need, I'm certain my employer can accomodate you. You'll have to be willing to do something in return for us, though.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:57 am

Even with free equipment access, making from scratch is more expensive than buying when ti comes to ammo.

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:07 pm

Hmm...I'll keep that bulk purchase in mind Ron, The way I was going through these things I might need em. And though I do not need machining equipment at this time, I will keep your offer in mind Traveler.
Now the fun part. The experiment is an attempt to create ammunition with a variety of mystical effects. I have finally started to see viable results, but unfortunatly, the energy that passes through the vessel (the Brass) has a tendencie to render it unusable after the first shot...a problem that I am trying to fix. I started out with a shotgun at first, but plastic shells don't seem to work at all. I then upgraded to a Holland & Holland .600 Nitro Express elephant rifle...Though I may have to downgrade to something a little more cost effective...

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:32 pm

There are other casing options than plastic for shotgun rounds - its just that plastic hits the sweet spot of durability, water resistance and economy. That makes it far more common these days than paper, cardboard or metallic cases.

The Traveler King · Post by **The Traveler King** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:32 pm

Ron Caliburn wrote:Even with free equipment access, making from scratch is more expensive than buying when ti comes to ammo.

That wouldn't be a problem with my employer.

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:20 pm

I know that shotgun shells come in a variety of other matierals, I was actually going to purchase a Holland & Holland shotgun (because they manufacture brass shells) when I stumbled across the .600 Nitro Express.
But another reason for the Nitro, is the size of the brass makes allows me more space for the construction of the ammunition.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:32 pm

There are a lot of good points to the .600, but there are also some disadvantages.

First up is recoil. It's a very powerful cartridge, and so it generates a lot of recoil. This means you have to use a heavier gun to suck up that recoil and you have to brace yourself much more for every shot, limiting your effective rate of fire.

Second is weight. The .600 shells are big and heavy, so are any of the guns you use to carry them. This makes it harder to carry a weapon and significant load of ammunition for an extended period of time.

Third is Overpenetration. The round is a great long range beast killer, but a lot of the work we do is inside of houses and similar. A fully loaded .600 cartridge at these ranges will typically punch through the big bad, punch through three or four walls behind him, and punch through someone in the next building.

Using a 12 guage I still have a handful of recoil and ammo carrying is reduced, but I don't have to worry about killing Dick and Jane next door with a poorly chosen shot.

BraveSirRobin · Post by **BraveSirRobin** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:36 pm

I was gonna say... isn't .600 an elephant gun (how would I know this? Google! Google is your friend.)? what's he hunting that takes that kind of power, a dragon?

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:59 pm

First off, yes the .600 is an elephant gun, and I'm using it to hunt all sorts unpleasant things...(werewolves, demons, the undead, spirits, etc.)

Second, Ron, you are right on all your points. However. I will point out that the experiment is to create mystical ammunition with a variety of effects. The ammunition actually has little recoil and can be fired with ease, though the gun is still heavy, and the amount of penetration actually depends upon the effect of the particular round, so far I've produced a round that can fire a mystic net to entangle the target, one that creates a fair amount of water that leaves the barrel at rather high speed (the vamp I shot with this one was rather surprised to say the least...) and one that produces a massive flash of blinding light. on the more destructive end of things I have one that shoots flames, one that shoots lightning, and one that produces an explosion of flame with an effect similiar to an HE grenade (unfortunatly this one still has some problems that I need to work out...namely the fact that the round sometimes wants to detonate as soon as it leaves the barrel...I almost killed myself the last time I tried using it!)

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:22 pm

Interesting.

Without resorting to techniques beyond the realm of science, I can get a 12 guage to:

Fire pellets or slugs in the material of my choice including lead, silver, wood, iron and rubber

Spray a mist of tear gas, pepper spray, garlic oil or holy water from the muzzle.

Launch a grenade that can be HE, fragmentation, tear gas, smoke, pepper spray, incindiary, flash bang, rubber fragmentation or a combination in effect.

Shoot a line of fire upto 250 feet long

Fire an illuminating flare

Unleash an exceptionally loud muzzle blast with bright flast creating a flash-bang equivalent effect.

I think you might be trying too hard with your project.

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:08 pm

I may very well be trying to hard, but one of the aspects that I've been looking at, is that if I can get some of these problems ironed out, there can be an almost limitless variation in what the ammunition can do. Through the use of magic I can produce results that technology is not likely to be able to reproduce any time soon. Another side benifit is that the weapon will leave less physical evidence of its use, because other than wounds or structural damage, the effects of the magic dissipate.

BraveSirRobin · Post by **BraveSirRobin** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:11 pm

Ron Caliburn wrote:Interesting.

Without resorting to techniques beyond the realm of science, I can get a 12 guage to:

<snip>

Shoot a line of fire upto 250 feet long.

Phosphorus is a fun chemical, isn't it?

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:19 pm

BraveSirRobin wrote:
Ron Caliburn wrote:Interesting.

Without resorting to techniques beyond the realm of science, I can get a 12 guage to:

<snip>

Shoot a line of fire upto 250 feet long.

Phosphorus is a fun chemical, isn't it?

It's lots of fun, until you have to put it out...just don't play with phosphorus grenades, a friend of mine did and he burned to death as a result

BraveSirRobin · Post by **BraveSirRobin** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:29 pm

oh, I don't play with it myself... I just know there's some awfully fun stuff that can be done with it...

speaking of dangerous chemicals, I should probably track down that guy from one of my high school Chemistry classes who knew how to make Thermite... kept filching powdered aluminum from various experiments for that very purpose... that guy had the Anarchist's Cookbook memorized...

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:37 pm

Knowing how to make your own explosives is a very good skill to have...but be VERY careful with the anarchists cookbook, not all the info in there is correct and following some of the recipes are likely to kill you.

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:45 pm

Yewah, the Anarchist is dangerous. it tells you how to make explosives and such, but it doesn't tell you the saftey precautions you should take when mixing them, amoung other fun little omissions.

More people have blown themselves up with that book than I care to count.

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:41 pm

Too damn true...your far better off finding somebody with a fare amount of experience to teach you first...The person who taught me is a retired Marine Intelligence operative, and he was damn scary when it came to explosives.

BraveSirRobin · Post by **BraveSirRobin** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:34 pm

oh, I'm not looking for him to teach me, I'm looking to get him in on the little group I'm forming... in addition to having the Cookbook memorized, he was a complete wiz-kid at chemistry, always got the best grades in the class... and he was damn handy with a bow the couple of times I went LARPing with him too...

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:50 pm

Joe, good source. My primary teacher plied his trade in Korea and Vietnam. The knowledge was a little old, but it was used under fire.

Robin - LARPing? You're a role player? Geeze man, remember life don't work like some damn game. . . even if you can throw fireballs for real.

I'd still be worried about that guy until I at least got a peak at his work space. One quick lookee-lou should let a trained expert figure out weather he knows how to do it safely or not.

BraveSirRobin · Post by **BraveSirRobin** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:37 am

Ron Caliburn wrote:Robin - LARPing? You're a role player? Geeze man, remember life don't work like some damn game. . . even if you can throw fireballs for real.

normally I'd agree with you (for instance, anyone who regularly wears "garb" should probably be locked up somewhere before they hurt themselves), but skill shooting a bow, even if the arrows have big Nerf balls taped over the tips so they can't hurt anyone, is still skill shooting a bow...

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:31 pm

shooting nerf arrows is a good start, but I wouldn't recommend it as a real training excersize. A good hunting bow requires a poundage of at least 60 lbs. and a nerf bow is going to be no where near that-a five or ten at best. drawing and firing a bow takes a lot more muscle power than most people think, when I first started shooting, the best I could do was 20 lbs.
then again, if your friend already has experience using full poundage bows then that is a very useful skill, and if I were you, I would ask him for lessons...

BraveSirRobin · Post by **BraveSirRobin** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:54 pm

yeah... he shot something like these from a regular bow, not this...

sorry if I was a bit unclear... :oops:

not that it seems to matter anyway... I've been almost completely unable to find anything on him past when he graduated high school... apparently he just kind of dropped off the radar after that... occasionally popped up at big LARPing events to win an archery contest or an open combat... but there's nothing on where he is now... hmmm...

Joseph Darkhold · Post by **Joseph Darkhold** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:08 pm

Don't know if you've already looked into this, and if you haven't then I hate to suggest it, but have you tried looking for a death certificate?

BraveSirRobin · Post by **BraveSirRobin** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:20 pm

not a death certificate, but I have searched through assorted obituaries... found some old guys with the same name, but no sign of my friend...

actually, I think I may have found a lead... some guy in a little town called Ava a little ways South of here says he was LARPing with him up until a couple months ago... think I'll see what I can do about heading down there after Ron's care package shows up... it'll be good to get out of the house for a couple days.

BraveSirRobin · Post by **BraveSirRobin** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:39 pm

well, here's the latest... I'm in Ava now, posting with somebody else's laptop in a cheap motel room... managed to get a ride down here with a LARP guy who was looking to check out the group down here... told him I was looking to check em out too... at Ron's insistence, have left Shorty at home, deep in my bedroom closet, way up high where nobody can reach him without being buried in an avalanche of board games...

anyway, the plan is to go out to their little meeting and chat up the local geeks tomorrow, see if anybody can point me in the direction of my friend... still got a bad feeling about this place though... think I actually see somebody sitting out in their car across the street, watching us... that can't be good...

expect more tomorrow, in it's own topic no less! now if you'll excuse me, the guy wants his computer back...

Ron Caliburn · Post by **Ron Caliburn** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:45 pm

Thanks for the update Robin.

Is your friend with the computer into this kind of stuff?

BraveSirRobin · Post by **BraveSirRobin** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:45 am

that would be a no... not even really a friend, just a nice guy who was willing to give me a ride...

actually, I was just getting on again now to purge our lovely little society from his computer's history before he finds something and starts thinking I'm loopy... told him I forgot to check one of my e-mail accounts the first time around to get the computer back from him... I should be back offline shortly...