I'm looking to aquire some specially ordered ammunition.

Exposed silver core ammunition in 10mm and .338 Lapua Magnum. About a thousand rounds of each so I can do some range trials.

A silver plated or edged knife or two would be helpful as well.

A PO Box can be provided by PM. I'm willing to pay for overnight delivery from anywhere in North America.

If anyone has any other ammunition types they'd like to recommend, I'm willing to entertain suggestions.

Mr. Caliburn,

My weapons are already zeroed for conventional ammunition. I wanna see how the silver stuff feels in comparison, before I try using it live.

I'll take a smaller batch for now (say, whatever you can have ready in a week?) and put in an order for the larger batch.

So what's the damage going to be and how do you prefer payment? No credit cards, if you don't mind.

@ Nemesis: You use a 12 at all?

Can spare you 20 rounds each (as samples of course) of solid slug, and .00 buck in cast .925 silver to test out and see if you like the results. Find they come in REAL handy against some of my quarry.

Also have some solid slug rock salt shells for the 12, I'll throw in a dozen of those (They're a bugger to make, but work REAL well on certain specific beasties)

Lemme know where to send, if you're interested in more, then we talk price.

I once knew a guy that could make a special ammo that completely ignores any and all armors as well as damaging those annoyingly resistant creatures. Unfortunately the process is very expensive and hard to obtain the metal needed for the ammo.

Lord NorDeth> I understand the wisdom of using shotguns for the use of silver projectiles, but how have you overcome the problem of silver shrinking during the cooling process? Do you cast at a larger size to account for the shrinkage of the projectile? If so, how consistent is the sizing on your projectiles (I assume under the correct conditions, you could, through control of variables) be able to produce consistent size and density projectiles, if so, have you attempted to use this same process to produce smaller caliber rounds that would fit in pistols and rifles?

Very interested (I played around with silver ammo for a while, but could not overcome the inconsistencies in quality of the projectiles produced)

Bre'Hanna

Because of the high shrinkage of metals like silver when casting, you calculate the rate of shrinkage and make the casting die slightly oversize. However, silver is a not good material to cast if accuracy is needed because when melted tends to have lots of dissolved gasses which gives it a tendancy to have voids unless alloyed with materials like zinc or tin which inprove the pouring ability.

The only accurate way would be to vacumn or centrifuge cast with careful cooling. You could also cast it oversize and then just face it in a lathe after inspecting it for voids - but that is labour intensive.

Its also pretty hard compared to lead or copper with low lubricity so a solid silver bullet will take the rifling out of the bore pretty quick.

You are going to want to use a copper jacket for lubricity most likey. You could also use the copper jacket as your flask and pour direcly into it which would fix most of the problems other than minor voids caused by disolved gasses. Accuracy would still be a problem at range, but it would be reasonable. You need an accurate way to control the head of the melt because there is only about 120 degrees C between the melting point of copper and silver, but that range could be improved if the jacket is a copper alloy.

Then the cost of the silver becomes an issue...you realize that you would need about 400oz of silver for 1000 rounds of that 338 lapua given that it uses a 250gr bullet. About 90gr of that would be the copper jacket.

100 troy oz .999pure silver bars go for about $1600. You can see where this is going cost wise. You can also get bag silver - when you purchase silver from a mine, you get it in bags with little round centrifugally cast pellets of different sizes. Instant shotgun loads.

However...there is a way that would be easier, much less expensive. Use a cast plastic sabot. The silver load would be smaller, but the plastic would distintegrate on impact sending the silver spalling into the target for maximum effect. it would basically be a mini shotgot round out of a large caliber rifle bullet and you could use the silver right out the the bag with no casting.

The penetration on a hard target would be low unless you went and cast a little silver spear and then enclosed that with the plastic. Then penetration would be very good.

You can get plastic with similar density as the silver so the accuracy would be good also, and you would have none of the bore wear issues.

This is all hypothetical of course.

Joe Smith wrote:
*SNIP*Then the cost of the silver becomes an issue... *SNIP*

No. No, it really doesn't.

Joe Smith wrote:This is all hypothetical of course.

If you're speaking hypothetically, then you're probably waisting my time.

On the other hand, if you can create exposed core silver rounds of high silver purity and accuracy then I'm willing to hear your prices. I would also pay for expediated production and discretianary delivery.

Nemesis wrote:If you're speaking hypothetically, then you're probably waisting my time.

If giving you information on how to get accurate silver rounds in batch quantities like you are asking for is wasting your time, don't bother calling me for a price. Otherwise...

Mr. Smith,

You did not provide me with information on how to procure the ammunition I requested. You waxed poetic on how to possibly create such ammo which is only useful for someone who makes their own in the first place. And then you ended your entire post with:

Joe Smith wrote:This is all hypothetical of course.

This doesn't really tell me where to purchase anything and suggests that you're only speaking hypothetically.

That does in fact, waste my time and does nothing to provide me with what I requested.

If you have something you actually wish to sell me as opposed to hypothetically, then I can be PM'ed.

I can make just about anything if you have the right paperwork. If you do or can get the proper permits to buy the ammo, I can make it. I do have the proper permits to legally make it. I could have a test batch ready by next week.

Paperwork? Proper Permits?



I'm afraid you don't exactly understand my specific needs here.

Still, it's been an amusing diversion.

Did I ever say the paperwork has to be real? I need something that looks correct so I can put the numbers in my little book that gets audited randomly.

In order to be able to provide little side jobs to people like you, I have to keep my main job as a fabricator (I do a lot of movie industry and specialized stuff) to pay for all the tools.

I did play with the silver embedded plastic (actually its a polymer of styrene) and silver rounds.

I made of up some plastic rounds for 338 Winchester (since that is the closest chambered gun I have to 338 lapua) and 9mm.

Lets just say that the plastic rounds are not good for these high powered rifles and leave it at that.

They were just brutal in the 9mm however. After initial impact, they ejected the silver into the target in conical with surprising energy. The hard silver just shredded everything around the point of impact and had better penetration than I throught. THe plastic gets melted and destroyed at impact also. It just leaves a little milkly white melted blob behind.

I tried the vacumn cast silver (.999 grade) with a copper jacket for my 338 - its a winner accuracy wise but the hard silver doesn't expand enough and it just tends to go right through most everything i shot it at. I don't think anything less than a APC would be able to stop it. It went right through the 1/2" steel targets at the range at 300m without knocking them over. Lead bullets just leave a little dent and knock them right over.

Hmmmm...

Yes Mr. Mordred?

I notice that you're staff here so I'm wondering if you had something to say?

I think I got the penetration issue fixed now also.

I was precipitation hardening the bullets since this makes the casting go faster (most of the hardening is done by water quenching the bullets out of the mold which brought their hardness up 50% or thereabouts - Rockwell B testing at about 70-75)..

I had some time so I went and annealed a batch (down to Rockwell B 50ish) and loaded them up.

The annealed silver is slightly softer than copper, but harder than lead. Now its acting pretty much like you would expect a bullet to act. Its mushrooming fine and no longer breaking up and expending all its energy into the target. Its penetration is still better than a normal bullet but its no longer going through the targets...just leaving a healthy dent. The bullets are nowhere as deep into the earthen backstop either (yes I did dig them out to see how they looked - plus silver is expensive). Accuracy was fine.

Funny thing...the bullets themselves are not under any government controls, but the powder and primers are. I can send shipments of bare bullets (no brass) to the US without a problem if anyone wants to load their own. No paperwork is needed....

Very well, I can deal with just having the bare bullets made.

I'll be PMing you shortly about a mailing address, quantities and price.

If you are familiar with the "Glaser" round, using their method (pellets suspended in a capsule), eliminates the need for casting, reduces imperfections, and vastly reduces the probability of errors from said round. And as an added benifit, you don't have the issue of the silver causing terrible amounts of wear and tear on the rifleing.

Nemisis, PM me the city and I'll give you the name of someone reliable and discrete in the area. No worries about any of em, they are used to buyers with strange orders, deep pockets, and a flair for secrecy.

As I have put above - I am doing something similar the the glaser rounds above for lower velocity weapons, like pistol type rounds.
Glasers have the same problems and are not availble in silver.

The rifle rounds are copper jacketed - no barrel or forcing cone erosion issues.

They are actually made to a tighter tolerance than anything store bought so accuracy is excellent.

Hey Nemesis,

Never heard back from ya about the 12...but I have some 10 for ya. Have gotten access to high temp molds, and a centrifuge/injection system that takes care of the rapid cooling issue. Molds are Tungsten/Titanium alloy, so they can be heated to same temp as the silver without melting. Stops the issue of the rapid cooling forming "bubbles" and throwing off the balance of the round.

Got 500 made, plus 20 as a sample for you to test. Need an address. No charge for the sample. Market price for the .925 plus small markup to cover expenses for the rest if you want them.

Let me know if interested.

Tungsten/titanium molds? Titanium is a refractory metal and is useless as a mold material. Its also reactive.

Silver has a relatively low melting point. I am just using molds I made out of H11 tool steel, that I had tungsten coated - just like I do when making custom cutters for the lathe or mill. Works great for stuff like this.

BTW - the bullets that I have been making have been selling surprisingly well. And silver has dropped to $13.50oz for bag silver, so the prices for my bullets has dropped also. You still have to load your own unless you are coming up here to get them.

I can also do THICK silver plating of anything you guys need now. I have finally gotten the shop all put together and modified a spray welder I picked up on ebay cheap to use silver instead of iron. It was for another job, but now its all setup and works great!

I just made a 2mm silver overlay over Aramid weave for someone using this setup and it works great. They had an idea for an outfit and I had to come up with a way to make it.

Aramid is neat stuff.

You can make anything out of it, its stronger than steel, and super light! The bond is excellent and the aramid takes the heat just fine - it has real impressive insulation properties and is about as heat resistant as asbestos! An oxy/ace torch barely scorches the stuff.

Has anyone who bought the rounds off of me actually used them yet? I would like to see how they perform in situ. Plus, I am always open for any suggestions for improvements.

That is precisely why it is alloyed. the Tungsten and titanium alloyed together make a VERY usable base for High Temperature molding/casting molds and forms. Trust me, it works, it's durable, and handles the stresses of the centrifugal settup i'm using (it's a bit kit bashed, so she aint pretty, but DAMN she works well)

And so does the ammo.

Very well Lord Nordeth.

I will sample your wares. I'm willing to pay for shipping but until I've tried the rounds I won't pay. If I'm satisfied, I will pay for the test rounds and order more.

If I am dissatisfied, I will terminate our business relationship.

Mr. Smith, I offer you the same accomodation I have provided for Lord Nordeth.

I'm looking for silver options for:
10mm (NOT short and weak)
12 Gauge
.338 Lapua Magnum
20mm (as in for a certain South African weapon)

I'm also interested in a pair of silver knives for close in defense, half dozen more smaller knives balanced for throwing and some hunting arrow heads. Maybe some crossbow bolt heads as well. If you have other hand to hand solutions such as silver plated knuckles, I may also be persuaded to expand my purchases.

My recent absence from the boards has been quite profitable, you see. I'm hardly bitter about that whole hallway monster thing anymore.

NTW.

And anything worth doing, is worth doing with lots and lots of money!



Besides, I just transfer the cost to my clients.

[quote="Lord NorDeth"]That is precisely why it is alloyed. the Tungsten and titanium alloyed together make a VERY usable base for High Temperature molding/casting molds and forms. Trust me, it works, it's durable, and handles the stresses of the centrifugal settup i'm using (it's a bit kit bashed, so she aint pretty, but DAMN she works well)

And so does the ammo.[/quote

If you say so. The titanium/tungsten crucibles are generally only used for high temperature crystal growth since they have issues with cooling (they crack if cooled too rapidly and are very brittle to start with).

Silver has a relatively low melting point, so if you want to spend a few thousand to make a mold...thats up to you. Like I said above - I used H11 tool steel which is overkill from a materials standpoint IMHO. It also only cost about $20 for the block I machined the mold out of.

Nemesis - I can send you a box of rounds now. I went and got a Type A import permit! I can legally ship live ammo and explosives to the US now (I needed it for some of the film stuff I do for my main business).

I made a neat little toy also, out of the aramid and silver setup. You might see a fake version in an up coming movie. I made those ones also. You might like it. PM me for for information.

Nemesis- Don't worry bout the shipping on the samples. That's on me.

50 10mm (135 grain (Nosler JHP) Test fired consistently at 490m/s, and delivering 1040 J)
I've also included 20 each of 12 Gauge Solid, and 12 Gauge 00 Buck.

Oh...and a little present from you to me...there's a set of "Knuckle Armour" in the package for you. It's gotta be XMas somewhere.

Enjoy

lol. When did this become a competition?

Nordeth, you have more practical experience with the things this stuff would be used for, but I have more experience as a materials fabricator. We should trade notes on this sort of thing. We could probably come up with some real neat stuff!

I have a question for anyone who has practical experience - what is the minimum percentage for silver to be effective against nasties? I am working on something interesting that is an offshoot of the silver/aramid stuff. I'm already getting the patent pending on that one.

Some alternate income from the patent might mean more time to play instead of working on boring stuff.

Anyways back to the shop - have to finish up something for tomorrow for a movie shoot.

Haven't you heard, Mr. Smith?

Competition is healthy in a capitalist society.

Silver needts to be at least 88%, if it's a plating job it needs to be at least 1/8th of an inch thick with no other metals present in the outer layer.

Myself I prefer a custom .410 shotgun I had made, about the size and shape of an AKSU, spits about 300 RPM, operated on a 30 round box most the time. (The clip retention springs will handle running around with a 200 round twin drum mag, but the mag springs are only good for one run, and it gets hung on doorframes - good call, Caliburn.) Since she spits shot, I didn't have too terrible of a time figuring out how to reload my own, and the tolerances allow for a lot of imprecision. (fast & dirty shot production - pour molten silver through a collander held 9 inches above a tub full of cold water, surprisingly round, and although not quite uniform, they are pretty close.)