• Skeptics score.

Posted: **Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:34 pm**

Psychics see big trouble over new laws wrote:LONDON (Reuters) - Fortune-tellers, mediums and spiritual healers marched on the home of the British prime minister at Downing Street on Friday to protest against new laws they fear will lead to them being "persecuted and prosecuted."

Organizers say that replacing the Fraudulent Mediums Act of 1951 with new consumer protection rules will remove key legal protection for "genuine" mediums.

They think skeptics might bring malicious prosecutions to force spiritualists to prove in court that they can heal people, see into the future or talk to the dead.

Psychics also fear they will have to give disclaimers describing their services as entertainment or as scientific experiments with unpredictable results.

"If I'm giving a healing to someone, I don't want to have to stand there and say I don't believe in what I'm doing," said Carole McEntee-Taylor, a healer who co-founded the Spiritual Workers Association.

The group delivered a petition with 5,000 names to the prime minister's office, although Gordon Brown is away in the United States.

With the changes expected to come into force next month, spiritualists have faced a barrage of headlines gleefully suggesting that they should have seen it coming.

But many don't see the funny side. They say the new rules will shift the responsibility of proving they are not frauds from prosecutors and onto them.

"By repealing the Act, the onus will go round the other way and we will have to prove we are genuine," McEntee-Taylor told Reuters. "No other religion has to do that."

The government said the new regulations form part of a European Union directive that is meant to harmonize unfair trading laws across the EU. It will introduce a ban on traders "treating consumers unfairly."

The British Humanist Association, a charity which campaigns against religion and supernatural beliefs, said stricter regulations were overdue because the current laws don't work.

"It is misleading for spiritualists to claim that, as religious' practitioners they should not be regulated under consumer laws," said Chief Executive Hanne Stinson.

"The psychic industry is huge and lucrative and it exploits some very vulnerable, and some very gullible, people with claims for which there is no scientific evidence."

Posted: **Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:22 pm**

Posted: **Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:44 am**

Wow... Most of the Secular Humanists I've spoken to have had no serious grudge against fortune tellers and soothsayers, and have believed in religious freedom. They've mostly said that if a person wants to throw away their money, they should be free to do so.

For myself, I believe that if a person believes in something, they should be free to practice or support it. The idea that people shouldn't practice it because it doesn't conform with popular "reason/logical" ideologies is identical the the same ideals that caused the American Revolution a couple hundred years ago.

C'mon, Britain, can't you learn from past mistakes?

Posted: **Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:27 am**

Religious freedom really ought to include the freedom to believe in psychics and spirit-healers, as well... Even if they are charlatans, sometimes people go to them because they *want* to believe... If you take that away from them, it can and quite often will do harm to them, in the form of emotional damage. It's like someone who has come to need religion suddenly being forced to admit it's not real... To do it all at once will rip the ground from under them, and in extreme cases, cause them to do harm to themselves.

While I doubt that many people would go out and commit suicide if this bill were passed, if the problem is as bad as they're portraying it to be, there will be a lot of Brits who find themselves lost and scared.

And *that* can open them up to entirely other worlds of hurt, but that's not necessarily a discussion for this thread...even if it is on-topic to the forum in general.

The main point is, if you strip away the belief system of someone who uses that system for security, you will do irreparable damage. That goes for the Humanists, too... If the Catholic God opened up the sky suddenly, looked down on us all, and said, "I have the biggest hat, so you will all worship me! Go on, get to groveling! I haven't got all millennium!", I guarantee you the atheists--including the Humanists--in the world would be more than a little dumbfounded, and wonder where the hell that had come from. They would try to rationalize it all as trickery, and when it was proven that it was not, they would not be able to wrap their minds around it.

That's the kind of emotional damage we're talking about...and they see no problem with doing it to others, just because those others see things differently than them. Inquisition, anyone?

Posted: **Thu May 08, 2008 8:30 am**

Anybody wanna let loose a couple of the nasties we deal with onto London for a couple years? Let them pass that law, and keep it in place after that.

I'd really love to see London turned into a nightmare city after that, because basically they're trying to discredit the last people that are providing any real help or defend them from the very nameless fears that haunt them, and go bump in the night.

Posted: **Thu May 08, 2008 1:51 pm**

I hope you’re joking, Razor . . .

Posted: **Thu May 08, 2008 7:13 pm**

"The psychic industry is huge and lucrative and it exploits some very vulnerable, and some very gullible, people with claims for which there is no scientific evidence."

Ah yes, another patronizing group of people who believe they know what is best for everyone else.

I can just see them now, patting those they consider less enlightened than themselves on the head. "There, there. We won't let those bad ole people rip you off anymore. Trust us. We know what's best for you. Just do as we say and everything will be all right."

Heaven save me from my friends.

Posted: **Thu May 08, 2008 10:31 pm**

Heh, when you put it that way, one realizes that the people passing that legislature are no better than the con-artists... Both groups are groups of liars who claim to know what's best for you, when only you can know that. Well, you and your doctor, anyway, and then only sometimes.

Which is, of course, not to say that all psychics are con-artists...but there are more con-artists than legit psychics, to say the least.

Posted: **Thu May 08, 2008 10:57 pm**

I'd go so far to say as there are more legit psychics than there are legit politicians.

Posted: **Thu May 08, 2008 10:59 pm**

No, there are plenty of legitimate politicians out there. There just aren't many genuine, honest politicians out there.

Posted: **Thu May 08, 2008 11:48 pm**

I don't see the issue with it. No one is saying that they can't believe and worship how they choose, the law instead provides recourse to those who were duped by a charlatan into spending their hard earned pounds on "faith healings" and "benificial spells" that are often no more than mere trickery. I highly doubt that someone who is not a charlatan would wind up facing such lawsuits.

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2008 12:13 am**

The article doesn't spell out what the new laws will dictate, but if it has this many people up in arms, it can't be good. If you have more information, by all means, please share. In the meantime, all that really needs said is that a legitimate psychic still has a very difficult time proving oneself in the discomfort of scrutiny.

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2008 12:15 am**

So this is all happening in England huh...over in London? Two words to that RAGE VIRUS....... :twisted:

Sorry...had to let that out.... :lol:

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2008 12:53 pm**

Razor wrote:I'd really love to see London turned into a nightmare city after that, because basically they're trying to discredit the last people that are providing any real help or defend them from the very nameless fears that haunt them, and go bump in the night.

I have to Semi agree on this one, but that just might be my semi-violent nature. Without those psychics to shield those people from those terrors, horrors and nightmares are sure to overrun the streets of London.

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2008 4:41 pm**

An honest, legitmate psychic should be able to allow their results to speak for themselves, as well as being willing to stand behind their service just like anyone else, or they should not market such services as anything other than "entertainment".

Oh well, if it weren't for the charlatans, how would we be able to discredit the rest, eh?

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2008 1:00 am**

KonThaak wrote:Wow... Most of the Secular Humanists I've spoken to have had no serious grudge against fortune tellers and soothsayers, and have believed in religious freedom. They've mostly said that if a person wants to throw away their money, they should be free to do so.

For myself, I believe that if a person believes in something, they should be free to practice or support it. The idea that people shouldn't practice it because it doesn't conform with popular "reason/logical" ideologies is identical the the same ideals that caused the American Revolution a couple hundred years ago.

C'mon, Britain, can't you learn from past mistakes?

Isn't it obvious what's going on? They are eliminating the people who can see the upturn in demonic influences, the increasing threat of vampires and other forces of supernatural evil. The British government doesn't want psychics who aren't under their direct control getting involved, so they are taking extreme measures to discredit and silence anybody who would tip off the public and cause a panic.
They have been trying to silence the Voodoo priestesses and psychics here in New Orleans since just after Katrina... but that is a whole other bag of worms, my friend, and I will post another thread to give everyone the low down on what's been happening here in New New Orleans. You had to know that so many deaths would have deep consequences, right?

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2008 11:55 am**

Prometheus Ping wrote:Isn't it obvious what's going on? They are eliminating the people who can see the upturn in demonic influences, the increasing threat of vampires and other forces of supernatural evil. The British government doesn't want psychics who aren't under their direct control getting involved, so they are taking extreme measures to discredit and silence anybody who would tip off the public and cause a panic.
They have been trying to silence the Voodoo priestesses and psychics here in New Orleans since just after Katrina... but that is a whole other bag of worms, my friend, and I will post another thread to give everyone the low down on what's been happening here in New New Orleans. You had to know that so many deaths would have deep consequences, right?

Are you in New Orleans, Prometheus? I’ve been interested in hearing from that area for a while, but I haven’t had the chance to study into it.

Welcome, wherever you hail from and wherever you are.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2008 2:19 pm**

Eilonwy Solstice wrote:
Prometheus Ping wrote:Isn't it obvious what's going on? They are eliminating the people who can see the upturn in demonic influences, the increasing threat of vampires and other forces of supernatural evil. The British government doesn't want psychics who aren't under their direct control getting involved, so they are taking extreme measures to discredit and silence anybody who would tip off the public and cause a panic.
They have been trying to silence the Voodoo priestesses and psychics here in New Orleans since just after Katrina... but that is a whole other bag of worms, my friend, and I will post another thread to give everyone the low down on what's been happening here in New New Orleans. You had to know that so many deaths would have deep consequences, right?

Are you in New Orleans, Prometheus? I’ve been interested in hearing from that area for a while, but I haven’t had the chance to study into it.

Welcome, wherever you hail from and wherever you are.

There's another kind of storm brewing, my friends. And it's going to make that hurricane look like a spring breeze if my fears turn out to be right.

Skeptics score.

Skeptics score.

Re: Skeptics score.

Please tell me that was a joke, Razor . . .

Re: Skeptics score.

Re: Skeptics score.

Re: Skeptics score.

Re: Skeptics score.

Re: Skeptics score.

Re: Skeptics score.

Re: Skeptics score.

Re: Skeptics score.

Re: Skeptics score.

Re:

Welcome, wherever you hail from and wherever you are.

Re: Welcome, wherever you hail from and wherever you are.