Before Christianity was called "Christianity", back when Christ was still alive, he tried to teach people "The Way"... Jesus taught that one must love of oneself, unconditionally, and not only give one's love to God, but to one's fellow man and to the world around him as well.

Amida Buddha sought to guide people to enlightenment through compassion and embracing ideals of pacifism, and bringing oneself into balance with the universe.

History is full of people just like them and Lao Tzu... It's also full of people who've twisted their words and their ideals to suit their own needs.

It's one of the reasons I'm in an Order by myself.

It's one of the reasons I'm in an Order by myself.

It's one of the reasons i'm ambivalent when it comes to religion.

GhostSpider wrote:

It's one of the reasons I'm in an Order by myself.

It's one of the reasons i'm ambivalent when it comes to religion.

You and my wife. =P

Religion has its place as long as people don't start cramming thiers down everyones throat as the only right one.

Many of the old Masters--Lao Tzu, Amida Buddha, Christ, Muhammed, and so forth--taught that there are many paths... They each only offered one.

Sadly, their words were all twisted and used against them, so that their path was supposedly the only one...

you know, i always had this theory that all religions are basically the same. it's kind of like how each different culture has their own version of the same story, like a creation myth, or a tale about a flood. they've all got similar methods, it's just something that sounds different depending on where you're from. i don't know if it makes sense, but that's what i found, at least.

I think you're on the right track, there, though geologists are saying there really was a Great Flood, that flooded some 80% of the world, in potentially recordable human history.

I've also heard that that's one possibility for the origin of the story of Atlantis...

So, back on topic... Does anyone have any questions about the general stuff before I move into the more specific areas of study?

I ask because I think I'm gonna need to use this thread as a means of distraction for a while...

Sophoroto wrote:So Mr. Razor, does Mr. Long use chi or is it psi?

I don't have psychic abilities, Mr. Sophoroto, nor really any powers at all. You could say I use qi, but you'd be saying nothing, because no one doesn't.

We're like fish, swimming in the churning sea of qi. Common fish swim heedless of the flow. When the current is with them, things are easy. When it isn't, jack, things ain't. The superior fish swims only with the flow; thus to oppose him is really to oppose the sea.

It could be said that I have some skill at moving with the flow, having killed vampires and werewolves barehanded, dodged shotgun fire, and pulled apart a car. But it was only a Daewoo, and really anyone could do what I've done if they have proper training.

Fighting a vampire with only the human weapon is very difficult but doable.

Of all the arts labeled as "dark arts", the only thing that makes them dark is that they utilize magics that target an unwilling victim. Some could argue that the sorcerer's lightning bolts and fireballs are considered dark arts, for that reason.

But I'm pretty sure I know what you're getting at... Necromancy does fall under the category of "dark arts", due to the fact that most targets of necromantic magics are unable to willingly choose to be a part of it. It can carry back spirits that should otherwise be far beyond the reach of other forms of mediumship, it can force corpses (or amalgamations of flesh and bone from multiple corpses) to rise and move at your whim, and it can generate and cure diseases which otherwise have no cure.

Necromancy can be either sorcerous or mystic in nature; these days, it is more common to see sorcerous necromancers, but there have been necromantic mystics around for at least ten thousand years. The shamans of certain African tribes have been known to kill a tribesman who had wronged the shaman or others within the tribe, and raise them as zombies to punish them. When the Romans--and later, the Christians--set to wipe out the druids and all who followed that faith, just under 2000 years ago, the druids started turning to necromancy out of desperation. So while sorcery can teach the art of necromancy, it truly got its start in mysticism.

In addition to being one of the darkest arts in existence (if not *the* darkest), it's also one of the most difficult... While they use the same energy as other mages, they have to refine the energy before it can be properly used, much like psychics...only this form of refinement isn't to purify it, but to corrupt and empower it, to allow the necromancer to do more than he could do with what he started. This corrupt, tainted energy is, of course, darkness-based, and something about the refinement process leaves it with a disturbing affinity for dealing with the dead. If one compares the energy that flows through a vampire to the energy used by necromancers, they are practically the same thing.

Mystic necromancers glean their abilities intuitively, figuring out what they can do with their dark energies on their own, while sorcerous necro's pry started figuring it out by studying common themes among the mystics. One ability that I have heard of that sorcerors have, as of yet, been unable to mimic is the mystic's ability to reshape parts of one's own body by attaching pieces of dead creatures to themselves, a twisted mockery of the druid's shapeshifting abilities. I have heard stories of necromancers being able to change their arms into the heavily-muscled arms of a great beast of prey, or to seemingly grow giant bat-like wings from their backs and fly away. I don't know all the extents of these abilities, but considering what I've been able to do with druidic shapeshifting in the past, I shudder to think of what they may be capable of doing...

On the other hand, because of the way necromancers refine their energies, mystic necromancers are very limited in what they can do outside the field of necromancy, and while sorcerous necromancers lack the form-changing abilities the mystics lay claim to, sorcerors are capable of using unrefined energies into other spells as well, and can be just as dangerous as the mystics as a result.

Because of the energy they work with and what they do with that energy, many necromancers find it disturbingly easy to deal with ghouls and vampires without too much fear of being attacked by them...unless, of course, they do something to agitate them.

The last thing I wanna mention is the fact that the corrupt, dark energy used has negative effects on the user's soul... It is possible to keep oneself from becoming overly corrupted by using it only on willing subjects and only using it sparingly, but it's usually advised to steer clear of it altogether. Sometimes young mystics turn to the art to try and reach out to the spirits of departed loved ones, but this usually starts them down a path that they never truly wished to travel...

It should be noted that at least one necromancer has taken to studying the effects of necromancy on the soul, and has realized that there is an entire field that other necromancers seem to have neglected...that being the ability for necromancy's corrupt energy to have a great impact on a still-living soul. Windner's notes detailed a lot of theories he put into practice, re-shaping a living soul, to the extent of controlling what that soul becomes at the point of death. I can surmise, through implications in his notes, that he has formed others' souls so that at the point of death, they immediately became entities of a kind some of us deal with on a somewhat regular basis--entities that possess others, or have the ability to throw corporeal objects, or generate a physical body for themselves.

I am, therefore, quite certain that he altered his own soul as well... I just don't know how.

I'm not sure if any other necromancers have discovered this ability, but it is a dangerous one...

That is the best explaination of Necromancy that I have ever heard. All of it I kind of grasp on an intuitive level, but then again, that is how magic works for me. Not that I use it very often any more since I underwent rigorous Psionic training but I still have the knowledge and every once in a while can or will crack off a spell instead of a psychic ability.

So you say Necromancy has its roots in mysticism? Very interesting. That explains a few ideas and hunches I got when I first started getting into this business. We had a small vampire situation at one point, and well... if you meditate on something long enough you'll start to figure things out, and come up with ideas. It really sucks...having to deal with Sups on a low/no-budget situation.

By far a great explanation, Necromancy is a dark art because it deals with a part of the mind that most dare not look into for it isn't well lit.

A necromancer can take any energy and refine it to a point of corruptness that means only they can use that energy while it is part of them. It's like a permanent soul bind that doesn't go away unless the energy is used. It can be taken away though, so don't get your panties in a twist anyone... It can be taken away somehow....

So says the self proclaimed scientist.

I read the occasional necronomicon now and again...

Taken--? Heh, yeah, that could work! Hehe, "a fool and his energy are soon parted"...

*blinks rapidly several times* You foolish, foolish Psi-Ghost.

Dawhoozitnow?

Razor wrote:*blinks rapidly several times* You foolish, foolish Psi-Ghost.

Whyyyyy?

Umm.. Well, when I was under the training of my first teacher, I managed to get my hands on a number of texts and such that date back to some of the older days. And of course some that don't exactly originate from Earth. A good couple charms or talismans helped me study them at the time.

Anyway, it has been thought that the Necronomicon was originally made by some very dark things. Some, might even consider them to be on par with the Old Ones or perhaps were even the Old Ones themselves. The book itself was put together in such a way that it corrupts whoever reads it, and aligns the reader with those said forces. The few genuine originals (the ones made before the ironbound versions) were done in such a way as to create a buffer between themselves and that corruption. The later made iron-bound versions, did not have such a buffer, but at that time, those books were being made in Egypt under the careful watch of the Magi and Priests of the day.

Now in modern times there is hardly any of either format left, true copies anyway. Most of the necronomicons you will find in bookstores contain just a small portion of the histories recorded within, if they're even to be believed. Course then again... Who knows?

In stores? I don't take those books in the stores too seriously... The book I have is made of an odd serpentine type leather cover over a mable hard front and rear cover and a clasp that unlocks like a... um... well I had to blow it off with a small... well you know.

And you managed to get past the protections, and still retain the knowledge?

Where do you think I learned the ways of doing a ghostly form? Many sorcerers, priests, and magi knew that some spells could be used and activated by the mind alone, so therefore technically it would be considered a psi ability would it not? It still takes a certain amount of corruption, but um... well you know me.

Corporate America is more corrupt than you are, my friend. Then again...

Corporate America is pretty corrupt... And there are those others that do even worse... Wait, Corporate America is about as bad as Baal...

hmm...

That must mean Corporate America=Ba'al?

I don't know if we are talking about the same Baal. I'm speaking of the god known as the king of the 7th layer of hell.

I don't think Dante counts as a reliable source as to who's who and what's what... Ba'al was originally a hermaphroditic fertility goddess of...eh, I forget who. I think it was the Sumerians. It's 1:40AM; forgive me if I don't remember my histories perfectly at this time. (Damned insomnia...) As I understand it, hir people were butchered by someone or other, and as a result of hir people's suffering, shi became male... Corrupted by the darkness and pain of hir (now his) people, he quickly fell into the role of something much darker.

Other stories hint that Ba'al was, in fact, killed alongside hir people, and some guy proclaiming himself to be Ba'al stepped up to take hir place...and while his bloodthirsty ways saved Ba'al's followers, this new Ba'al began demanding blood sacrifice be made unto him.

Yet more stories whisper that the male Ba'al was just and righteous, and it was just the Jews who portrayed him as being horrible.

All I know is that there are a group of entities calling themselves the Ba'al Zeneckt who are bloodthirsty, cruel, and demand blood sacrifices be made unto them.

So while history is a little shady as to who or what Ba'al really was, we know what it is, and we know that what it is really needs to hurry up and get itself wiped off the face of existence.