True that.

Ah, but Michael, sometimes there's more to a title than originally meets the eye... Yes, there are several dozen titles for a person who wields magical power; there are several dozen ways to do it, and each title contains implications as to how that person performs their magic... (I know you know all this; mostly I'm talking to you in specific because you've opened the door for conversation, and anyone else who sees this post can potentially benefit from it.)

In the same manner, "Diabolism" and "rune casting" are two completely different fields of magic. "Rune casting" can be done with almost any symbols that have meaning to you, whereas "Diabolism" is a specific set of symbols, a specific set of words, specific components for each symbol, used in specific ways, etc, etc, etc... That's why the study of Diabolism takes so long (especially for beginners, who also must study the basics of magic, and, more specifically, symbol magic), whereas the practice of rune casting can be achieved in a matter of weeks, if one is already familiar with magic (months if not).

If someone were to change Diabolism's name, it should be as unique as the word "Diabolism", to represent the unique practice itself.

Remember, a "square" is a "quadrilateral", but a "quadrilateral" isn't necessarily a "square".

KonThaak wrote:Remember, a "square" is a "quadrilateral", but a "quadrilateral" isn't necessarily a "square".

I prefer a sniper is a marksman, but a marksman is not a sniper.

Well said.

"All murderers are killers, not all killers are murderers."

Looks like a duck. Walks like a duck.
Not necessarily a duck.

I started off as a mystic, you might say... when I was first getting involved with this business. However, I never studied any tomes, or text. In thinking about it, as I prepared to write this, I would have also said that I never gleaned any power from spirits either. I cannot say that is true though. My mother died when I was 3 to violence. She was a closet 'witch' at least society would label her as such. She was more of a mystic I would think. Anyway, from a young age she began awakening my psychic ability, and I think she taught me how to use magic on an intuitive level, though it would have to be when I was in the dreamscape, or in a sub-concious way.

I had a conversation with her a year or so ago, and she did confirm that she taught me a number of things. ... However, this is not the extent of my learning. I began learning martial arts at 7, and after a few years, discovered Chi and how to use it, through my first real teacher. He was also a psychic, and began helping me develop my abilities in earnest. Levi also had a good grip on magic, and began teaching me the fundamentals of conciously understanding it. It only furthered my abilities.

Years later though, I found my current mentor who began to fill in and teach me metaphysics and quantum-physics/mechanics and the rest of what I needed to learn as a psychic. With the metaphics studies, I actually began to learn the principles of magic even more, and even some of the more out of the way laws, such as Karmic law and how to affect and shape Karma.

I really do need to get back into this... Tonight, if I have time, energy, and access to my computer (as opposed to my Wii), I'll try to post something on the magic of the mind, aka "psychic powers"...

KonThaak wrote:I really do need to get back into this... Tonight, if I have time, energy, and access to my computer (as opposed to my Wii), I'll try to post something on the magic of the mind, aka "psychic powers"...

I look forward to it Mr. KonThaak.

From a purely scientific standpoint (just cold hard measurements, and raw technology), there is a definite connection to electro-magnetics, psi, and all of the forms of magic I have seen to date.

Most "signifigant" sites have a strong EM flux at the times that I have been told are times of power, and there does appear to be a change in the nearby EM fields at varying frequencies when a person uses magic or psi abilities.


The answer is out there, I just don'tt have the critical data to tie it all together yet.

Kei, I recommend you get in contact with a man by the name of Paul Dong. He is a Ling Jong Jing (Empty Force) master who has done tons of research on the subject of both Chi and Psi. He teaches his method quite often. I would recommend getting his book, Ling Jong Jing. It has some of his research listed as well as results from experiements, and a device that can detect the energies of psi and chi, and quantify them now. Part of this research was done with some russian scientists.

I would think you would do well to start looking in that direction.

Bleh, looks like I'll be talking about "psionics" this weekend...

Kei, a lot of the answers you seek can be found in the human aura. We have cameras that can photograph auras, which are simply electromagnetic energy given off by all living things. I would imagine that a lot happens in a person's aura when they are exercising paranormal abilities...

If you can study that, I have faith you'll find a lot of the answers you seek.

Razor, is this guy the one who's to blame for the "Dragonball Z" syndrome? ("His power level is OVER ONE MILLION!!!!!1zorzomg")

Well...I can't say no to eager students, so I'll stay up just a bit, tonight.

Magic and psionics are really just two sides of the same coin... Magic--in all its forms--utilizes one's personal energies, as well as drawing on ambient energies, to affect and reshape the world around you... In other words, magic can be said to come from without.

Psionics uses a similar principle, but isn't quite the same... For one, a psionicist can almost never draw on ambient energy. While the energy they draw upon can be said to be the same as that used by the mage, the psion's energy is very heavily refined. I have seen comparisons drawn between energy and oil--mages use "crude" energy, while psions use the refined, finished product. Nevertheless, they utilize their inner energy (which I've seen referenced a number of times as their "inner strength") to achieve results, but most of the time, these results don't reshape the world around them, but rather, enhance it...and just as often as it is used to enhance the world around them, it is used to enhance their own mind, and to affect the minds of others. In this way, psionics can be said to come from within.

There are several fields of psionics. Many psionics seem to focus around one or two fields, though a few seem to be able to utilize a few from most or all of the fields...

For starters, there are abilities that enhance the psion's senses, making them capable of sensing paranormal threats at three hundred yards, listen to the outermost, active thoughts of those around them, or just simply make them very, very aware of how much time has passed since a given point. All of these abilities focus on one's own senses, and require an open mind (usually at the cost of one's mental blocks and defenses). A famous and classic example of this field is divination, most specifically the reader of Tarot decks, who likes to speak in riddles and overcharge their customers. (A word of caution: Many of these psychics are phonies, but a few are legitimate.)

Next, there are abilities which psions use to enhance their physical capabilities, or to use in place of such. When Celeste was alive, she mentioned using one to pass time while she was in a bus, one that allowed her physical body's functions to slow until she seemed to be dead. Others have abilities which give them a temporary "buzz", like a hyper adrenaline rush. A more radical and famous example from this field is telekinesis, the ability to move objects from a distance, without touching them.

Following that field comes the psions who can heal... This ranges from minor healing abilities such as making someone feel a little better when they're sick, to the often-scoffed-at "psychic surgeon" who can reach into someone and remove foreign objects without making an incision or leaving a scar. (Again, while many who claim to be able to do this are frauds, it is as easy to "debunk" even legitimate psychics as it is with mages.)

The newest field of psionics encompasses a group of mental masters who have a strange affinity for all things mechanical... I don't understand this too much, myself. There is little on this field to study; for one, it's only been around in any noticeable way for the past 50 or so years, and for two, many new-age, psychic, and magic groups still don't recognize this group as pertaining to anything "truly" paranormal, with a few exceptions. This means that the literature is difficult to get one's hands on, at best, and much of it can require an engineering degree just to understand. I'll get more information on them as I can.

The last group, oftentimes referred to as "Firewalkers", break all kinds of rules... These psions are constantly reshaping the world around them, most often by burning things, but almost as frequently by using fire for other effects, including, it's sometimes whispered, the ability to use fire to heal others...though some scoff at this, claiming it far more likely that Firewalkers can just heal burns and whatnot, when they can heal at all. Many psions from this field tend to have personalities that match their element, and few seem to have the patience or head for studying or recording the extent of their abilities. Like before, I'll get more information on them later.

There are rumors of another field of abilities, powers that go far beyond the standard extents of the other fields, but from what I've heard of this supposed field, these "super" psionics could easily just fall into the other categories already listed, with notes that some abilities are far more difficult to learn than others, let alone use.

And that's psionics in a nutshell... I'll go into more depth this weekend, when I'm not so tired.

I have a question, it sounds like magic can do anything that psionics can but psionics can't mimic magic is this right or am I mistaken?

GhostSpider wrote:If the professor will allow me, i'll answer this question.

Yes, and no. Magic can do the same things as psionics, but it can be more of a strain for a mage. I can't think of a proper analogy at this time.

Is it something like a lung fish it can breathe and move out of the water but with much more diffaculty than in the water?

Nail on the head, Soph. You've got the right idea, there.

Many mystics around the world practice both magic and psionics... Both of them utilize different forms of the same energy... For these and a few other reasons, I classify them all as magic.

I have heard of Taoist sorcerors in the east who cast magic spells simply by focussing their will into the task, and doing nothing more... To them, it is all "sorcery". I am curious to study into them, and find out if they are a special kind of mystic, or if they are simply powerful psions whose abilities can mimic magic effects.

Might want to talk to Razor about that one, from what has been explained to me they use a strange combination of chi and magic to achive their results, including if one can believe the claims of some, immortality.

That claim is made time and again, and those who make that claim die prematurely long before showing any kind of evidence of being immortal... For a long time, sorcerors believed that immortality could be achieved in males by holding their urethra shut during coitus, thereby absorbing the female's essence while retaining their male essence... This was, of course, only them fooling themselves, because even if immortality could be attained in such a way (which I've seen no evidence supporting), they lost that "male essence" through their next urination...

So I guess you could say that a lot of old Taoist sorcerors literally pissed away their chances at immortality.

...

I'm so, so sorry. >_<;

HAHAHAHA!

Hehe... No, really, I am sorry for the joke. It was bad and wrong of me.

I've heard the claim of immortality made quite a few times, and after researching into the ones I've heard about, I've decided that there's really only a handful of ways of achieving immortality, and magic alone won't get you any of them...though it can be a catalyst in a few scenarios.

True immortality is a pipe dream, and those who seek it need to just learn to get over their fear of death...or let go of their desire for power.

I plan on living forever not in body but through the memories of loved ones, the only true immortality one can achive.

Amen, Sophoroto.

As for the Taoist claims of immortality, I heard of one that does bear a grain of truth. It was said that one of the greatest goals and efforts to strive for in Taoism is to be able to subsist off of sunlight alone... well besides the need for water. I can attest that sunlight's energy can be absorbed and converted to be useful physical/personal energy.

As for the mix of Chi/Psi/Magic... Chi is personal energy, and vitality. Psi is outwardly directed energy, and magic is comprised of outward energies woven together. At least this is how I see it and understand it. All of it is energy. Psi is chi, but chi is not Psi. Psi and Chi are made of the same type of energy, except that Chi stays Chi until it leaves the body. This is the key difference. Many Chinese and Japanese Masters acknowledge this, though they still refer to outwardly directed energy as Chi, though many do aquiesce that this 'Chi' is of a different type, and a different feel. Chi can be drawn in from the outside and redircted, which could classify it as magic. This type of Chi or Chi usage is found in some groups such as Chi Gung, and Shaolin martial arts training, and even some types of Tai Chi Ch'uan. Often this form of Chi or Chi usage is refered to as Dragon Chi or Environmental Chi.

Dragon Chi has been used to refresh martial artists, and Chi Masters quite often throughout the ages, and have found that in many cases different places, people, and objects have differing amounts of Chi available to be taken in and used. For instance, places of wild life and beauty, and high places often contain positive chi. Dark, dingy, dank cramped spaces that rarely see the light of day contain negative chi and are said to be sources of sickness. Depending on the Chi Master and their preference for using Chi they will cultivate these types and function with them.

Chi is often focused through the body by the mind and is responsible for the effects of many seemingly 'supernatural' abilities displayed by hard-core martial artitsts. The ability to punch through walls without being a muscle-bound freak, to shatter bones, and cause blinding agony with a touch... Often are the results of Chi and training.

There are two main types of Chi as well. Hard and Soft, in addition to positive and negative. Hard Chi usually is percussive, and moves in straight lines, and is set up in hard edges. It is often responsible for such feats as Iron Shirt or Iron Robes, which is a chinese technique to harden the skins penetration value against blades. It does work, I know first hand. Saved my life that day.

Soft chi is flowing, circular, and soft. It could be best demonstrated by watching a Grand Master of Aikido. It moves in a circle and sweeps through and around, and when used to transfer an attacker's power, can contain great force, but when defending, it lacks hard edges. It is often used by martial artists that aren't so much about hurting their opponent, but subduing them. Another good example is that of a ribbon twirled by a dancer. In some modern study/training of Chi-Gung using a dance ribbon in such a fashion is recommended for those training in soft style.

I apologize I actually intended to get into a lecture on Psi, instead of Chi, but it seems that this is what I am meant to cover tonight.

As for the former question in reference to Paul Dong... As far as I know, Paul has had no contact with the Anime community, and takes the work of Empty Force and study of the powers of the human mind seriously, and would not care to see his work slandered in such a way as created by the Dragon Ball Z community.

If there are any other questions I would be happy to answer them.

So Mr. Razor, does Mr. Long use chi or is it psi?

I am glad to see that young Soph has found a place to dicuss/ study magical theory.

Razor wrote:As for the Taoist claims of immortality, I heard of one that does bear a grain of truth. It was said that one of the greatest goals and efforts to strive for in Taoism is to be able to subsist off of sunlight alone... well besides the need for water. I can attest that sunlight's energy can be absorbed and converted to be useful physical/personal energy.

I wish to state here that, despite my slanderous joke on Taoist sorcerors, I have nothing against Taoism, and have studied it at some pretty decent lengths. I enjoyed it and its philosophies, but was saddened to see sorcerors take a religion based around philosophy, and gear it towards the attainment of power and unnatural immortality. (I know I normally despise the use of the word "unnatural", but in this case, it is truly how I see it, and how I think Lao Tzu would've seen it.)

Now that that's out of the way...I also wish to state that there has been no evidence that subsisting on sunlight and water alone would lengthen one's lifespan... However, harmonizing oneself with the flow of the Tao (or Chi, or whatever you wish to call it in this case) to such an extent as to achieve such a thing would definitely label one as a "Master"...and as Lao Tzu lays out in the Tao te Ching, the Master is at peace with himself, the world, and the Tao. A Master would feel no need to prolong his life... After all, that would deny him the chance to become one with the Tao, or at least, would prolong his wait for it.

It is my sincere belief that the subject of immortality in the Taoist faith came about because some of the old Masters and writers spoke of living forever in the Tao...and while they may have meant "living forever" by means of returning to the Tao (much as Christians make the claim of eternal "life" in Paradise), someone misconstrued it, got the wrong idea, ran with it, and dragged others down with him.

For the record, Lao Tzu never spoke of immortality, simply strove to teach that to understand The Way ("Tao"), one must harmonize oneself with the world, strive to bring oneself to balance, never seek to bring harm to others, and understand that there is an energy all around us from whence we come, and to which we will return.

He left Tao te Ching ("The Way and its Power") to the people of China in 2500BC.

His teachings sound familiar to anyone else?

Um, a little hint please.