I'm no deader than I was...

Seeing as I live/lived next door to Ben and have had to watch his kid more times then I care to admit. I feel I should have some say in this matter as well. So hear it goes. I think Zack, it is Zack right? Has a good point. Ben is a kind hearted man, a loving father and a fierce warrior. I don’t think he could live with what he’s done. I don’t think Ben could sleep at night with what he’s lost. I think the kindest thing would be to end his suffering. An better at the hands of friends that would see that there was no pain, then at the tormenting hands of Dark, please people…Dark is killing Ben one life taken at a time.

I vote with the aye’s.

I am here Dark. Vent your wrath on me, oh wait, you can't can you? Not any more than you could make Mr. Holisters hands harm Ms. Molly.

Take your best shot Dark. Just one request, do it personally, or are you really that weak?

You know, I think people are getting confused on my stance on this matter. I've said I will have no problem killing Ben Holister. Never said I wanted to do it.

Oh, and Guardian, damnation worries me not. I will see neither heaven or hell. I fear only my own conscience.

Finally, someone who is tired of his riddles as well.

You tell him Hannah.

If a crime leader were to never hold a gun in his life, but instead orders his subordinates to do the job for him, would he still be guilty of murder? The answer is yes. The man would be tried in a court of law for several things, among which are charges for the actual murder, and also several charges for the solicitation of pre-meditated murder.

Just because he's too much of a pansy to appear in person to murder someone does NOT make him any less guilty of murder, Hannah. I still hope we can free Ben from his oppressive fragmented mind somehow, but even if we could, I'm pretty sure he'd have a pretty rough time of it in the court systems. This is not to say that I'm opposed to his rescue, simply that I think he'd be pretty upset about it if he's rescued only to spend the rest of his life behind bars. Evil Ben has done a pretty good job of ensuring that even if Ben is to win against him, in the end there's still PLENTY of evidence that he is at LEAST an accomplice to the horrible deeds. I'm not sure that pleading insanity would be nearly enough to help him, either.

This is my sincerest, most dreaded fear: Ben's life, as he once knew it, is over regardless of what anyone does for him. Even if Evil Ben is killed, erased, overcome, whatever, Ben'll still have the legal system to overcome. I hesitated to say it earlier because I hoped, deep down, that the murders were not real. When I received the tongue, I was too emotional to voice any real arguments. When I received this latest, horrible thing, I realized that there is only a very small chance that Ben will ever be able to resume a normal life.

I encourage anyone and everyone to propose a possible defence that Ben could use, though, if he were to overcome Jeremiah. I refuse to completely give up on ANYTHING until the situation is completely over... But even with my legal knowledge, I can't come up with anything that could hold water in court.

The fact that we know he's been locked up inside a mental institution kept totally sedated is a pretty solid alibi.

This is true, but what if prosecution were to come across some of the conversations found here? This doesn't PROVE that he was the one saying the things Jeremiah has stated, nor does it PROVE that he is the one who sent the items that you and I have received. It DOES, however, provide some degree of ground for prosecution to stand on. I'm not totally up to date on my internet law, as It's never been in my jurisdiction, so I'll have to do some research, but the way I see it, prosecution could use the information found here, which is publicly available, as circumstantial evidence. Convictions HAVE been made purely on circumstantial evidence, so he's not in the clear yet. If there are records being kept of his location, then I'm sure this could be evidence used in a defence, but I have yet to hear who has been in control of sedating Ben, and I have yet to hear where he is being kept. They may not be able to prove it, but with a good enough prosecutor, it's very possible that the jury could still be swayed. I suppose you're right, however, in that the case would be more of an iffy situation than I gave it credit for.

In the American Judicial System the burden of proof is on the prosecuter. He or She needs to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the person accused is guilty. I don't see how that is possible in this case.

I'll concede to that. Circumstantial evidence does not often prove to the jury that a person is guilty by itself, though it does do that sometimes. Ben's sparkling past is a pretty good character statement by itself, in the defence that he is a person that could never have taken part in the murders... Though I beg the question; Is there actually written documentation of his stay at the institution? That in itself is the single greatest defence the man could have, but the situation as to his exact location, and the identities of those involved in his continued in-patient stay have been kept so quiet to the likes of me, that I wonder if such documentation has been kept. It's very possible that this information is protected by patient confidentiality, but the fact is that even the procedures being used on Ben, the keeping of his constant completely sedated state... I'm not sure that's entirely legal, so I question if legal documentation has been kept. It's a mental health institution, and if he is not going in for surgery or something to that effect, then his continued sedated state, or at least his TOTAL incapacitation with the sedatives, might be considered unnecessary, unhealthy, and unlawful, as with him being unconscious, it is impossible to treat his ailments. I think that he probably is supposed to be kept conscious enough that counsellors can discuss his feelings, and try to... you know, counsel him. This is yet another thing I'd have to research... But if he has legal documentation regarding his stay, then I still say that's his best defence.

Mind you, I'm trying to play devil's advocate, here. I want to see him saved, too, and if at all possible, I want him to be able to be free once the situation is resolved. I think that legal documentation is the key here, but I'm not sure it's being kept, what with his questionable confinement. Again, please help me to determine his defence. If such documentation is unable to be procured, what are some of the other things we could produce that could help his testimony, if he's saved? I'm thinking the anesthesiologist would be a key witness, also. Perhaps any nurses or the such that help keep him sustained might be able to testify also. As soon as this documentation is procured, however, I'll be content to say that I don't think he'll have too much trouble with the courts.

There are many questionable variables surrounding Ben Holister these days, and I want each of them covered. If he comes to trial, I want no stone unturned in his defence, so I want to ensure that he is able to produce an adequate argument to the courts.

If no records are being kept I still have copies of all my communiques with the staff and the attending physician.

You are of course assuming that he will even want to stay a free man. Even after we have rescued him from Dark, there is no telling how he will handle all the events Dark committed. There is an excellent chance that he will blame himself for all that has happened and want to go to jail.

Not the best outcome, to be sure, but one we must be prepared for.

IF he doesn't want to be defended, that is, of course, his right. If he wants to plead guilty, that's totally fine by me, but if he wants to plead innocent I want a defense that is rock solid. I think I'm done arguing law for the day, it seems to me that we've reached a solid enough conclusion as far as this point is concerned, with Bert's conversations and etc. Any further issues can be handled later with an attourney.


Post 100! I'm official!

That is true. Although if he does come out of this I can't imagine him choosing that life and abandoning Molly.

He might feel that Molly is safer far away from him. Like I said, not the best outcome we can hope for.

I just don't see it happening. If he comes out the other side its going to be because of Molly.

We all have to believe in something.

Things get weirder.

Checking in?

Yet another personality. Still, I like this one's attitude.

Gunning for Dark, a good thing, Ben and the Guardian are no more? Am I the only one worried by that idea?

Guardian I don't know about. I doubt Holister is gone. He's too fucking annoying to die like that. Although if he is I have no compunction against terminating him now.