I'm really starting to like you, Gabe.

Heh. He grows on you. Preferably not the way he grew on/from me. THAT part is not so pleasant.

The Most High does not "need" anything. The Most High created logic, not the other way round.

You continue to illustrate just how far you've fallen, how pitifully lost you are, Gabriel.

Frank: As a firm believer, and one who speaks with the Creator on a quite regular basis, I can firmly say that you are completely and 100% in the wrong on this.

Whoever told you they are "Most High" has been playing you for a fool.

Creator does not judge. Creator does not seek vengeance. These are mortal ideologies, like "good" and "evil", and "sins".

Yes, sins are mortal creations, not the brainchild of the Creator... Look to Genesis. Mankind ate of the "Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil". Before this, mankind was just another animal... What did they do? They decided that God's creation--their bodies and their natural nudity--was "sinful". They clothed themselves. THEY decided that it was "wrong", and THEY were cast out for it.

Really, all we need to do is relax. The "Son of Man" decides how to best obey God's laws, and this particular Son of Man is on extremely good terms with that which is holy.

I come home to God. I hold God in my arms. I see God in the eyes of my children. I crack jokes to, about, and with God. I weep with and for God. And God does all of these things right back to me.

If you need something to tell you what to do, and you feel that murdering--excuse me, "releasing lost souls"--is the only way to God, then you have been misled.

But I can't tell you what to think or how to feel. I'm sure you will find a way to twist around my words if I did. Your kind are quite good--and quite fond--of that manner of "argument".

So to you I say, do what you must. If I make jokes at your expense, it is only in good fun.

Go with God, for thou art God.

Joke as you will. It costs me nothing.

It doesn't cost me anything, either, Frank. That's the beauty of a joke. If everyone concerned knows it's just a joke, then it's harmless.

Try smiling and laughing, once in a while. You'd be amazed what it does for your complexion, and your general outlook on life.

EDIT:

Gabriel, you may have been right about other things in this argument, but you're wrong here. Everyone is worth forgiving, for there can be no "wrong" without "right"...and very rarely is everything so black and white.

Frank believes. He's being misled. Have you ever been misled, Gabriel? Hmm, what's that? I seem to recall a few times where you were led wrongly, no? It's easy to do.

A person can be forgiven just as easily as they strayed. From what I've seen, they needn't even ask for it.

Gabriel, if we are speaking of forgiveness for and from the misled, we should talk. You have been less than forthcoming with those who are youre allies, who would if you let them even be your friends.

That is neither here nor there, I shall pray for all of those who stray from paths of peace and light, knowing the hells they are creating for themselves. I pray that when the spider's thread decends to offer them escape they may have the wisdom to help their fellow sufferers be freed and in doing so find thier own redemption.

There is no need to worry about my complexion or my outlook.

The Most High does not deceive, the Most High does not mislead.

Although you may find comfort in convincing yourself otherwise, know that it is not true comfort.

No, Creator does not mislead or deceive, but what you are following is not the Creator...but as I said, you have the right to believe what you want.

As to your signature, Matthew 10 is quite the controversial little chapter... The particular quote from it that you use, however, is not a declaration of his desires, but a warning of what will happen when his message is spread. It is not that he WANTS man to turn against his family, but that they WILL. Never once does he say, "I will turn son against father and father against son AND THIS IS A GOOD THING"...but rather a simple statement that his message and his teachings will spark a lot of infighting.

What's more, when he says he will "turn father against son" etc, it's obviously a reference to Micah 7, wherein it is stated that men without God (who is love) will turn against one another...and the implication is that through God (love), we can find a better way.

Many are the people in this world who are without love, but loudly proclaim God's name, and condemn those who think and feel differently...but in 1 John 4, it openly states that such people's deeds will not be remembered or recognized by God.

Jesus was quite the jovial fellow, Frank. He joked with his disciples, went to parties, drank wine... He knew how to live, and how to have a good time. There is a great deal we can learn from the man, if we only open ourselves TO learn from him.

You should listen to what I have said and re-examine your canned responses. These things you say, they have nothing to do with me.

I love which is why I accept the Calling without hesitation. Indeed, I accept it with enthusiasm.

I have already spoken about faith and deeds, and I have never condemned.

I have read your words, Frank, and I still say you are mistaken.

A brave and intelligent woman, after many discourses, once said to me, "I have hated, and not realized it. I thought I was loving, but I was denying love." She believed she loved her fellow man, but after very thoroughly examining her feelings and her actions, she realized that she did not, and she repented, and I believe she is much happier for having done it.

Frank, you judge and condemn, because another tells you to judge and condemn. Your faith is so blind that you cannot see what you are doing.

But one day, your eyes will open, and you will realize what you have done...and even if that day is after your very death, I know you will be forgiven.

Again I pray to you, may you go with God.

I've examined everything. I believe nothing. I know.

Nobody tells me to judge or condemn.

If you have been paying attention, you haven't been doing a good job of it.

The examination is a personal process, one of profound introspection. That is how I have examined and how I have come to know what I know. I cannot share my soul. You ask of me the impossible, and you know it. I have neither attacked nor murdered a human being, I have simply destroyed the Monstrous who have turned their backs on faith. Humans do not shrivel into goo and dry to dust in an instant when they are slain. Monsters, however, do. Your reaction to the righteous is typical of the wicked.

Bla bla bla.

If I may be so bold, Frank, I have chosen to approach you in THIS thread, because in this thread, it makes it unpleasantly obvious that you do not always target those who "turn their backs on faith", as you put it. When something claiming to be an angel of God tells you to kill, you do not hesitate or ask questions; you just kill. That kind of "devotion" makes one nervous; how long will it be before you kill a human being, believing them to be a monster in the guise of a human? Would you even feel remorse, or would you feel justified, never realizing what you'd done?

As for introspection... One can, if one is willing and has actually gone through introspective processes, retrace one's steps, one's mental logical conclusions, and what assumptions were made. You could, if you so chose, share with us whether it was a logical reasoning that led you to believe you're doing God's work, or whether it is just a "gut feeling". Myself, it's a combination of the two, and I am quite happy to admit when I have to take a leap of faith about something I believe in, especially in relation to what God is... I'm also all too happy to explain my thoughts and feelings on that matter, and take no offense if anyone disagrees. You know why? Because I'm actually happy with my relationship with the Divine, for the first time in as long as I can remember.

One last thing... Introspection, no matter how deep or how long one ponders introspectively, can NOT produce conclusive proof or knowledge, save for the knowledge and proof of one's own existence ("Cogito, ergo sum."). Therefore, an introspective though process may ONLY provide us with beliefs, hypotheses, theories, and ideas... You cannot prove anything with only introspection.

The wicked should be nervous, especially if the Most High decides to find them.

Once again you have decided that logic constrains the Most High, when that is not the case.

There is nothing further to discuss.

If the Most High rewards the righteous and the faithful with our heavenly tents, then logic dictates that I be righteous and faithful. I choose to be righteous and faithful, not only because it is logical but also because it is on which I will be judged.

It's very simple. But you're having difficulty grasping it because you've lost your faith. So you lash out at the righteous. So you tempt the righteous to deviate from the path the Most High lays out before them.

Your attempts to lure me into wickedness have failed. I have passed the test and am now rewarded with no longer having to suffer the stench of your shit anymore. The angel Victoria has come to me, the sweet one who gives me succor, has given me the Good News.

I only pray that your god believes as strongly as you do that the trampleing of his son's message in the book you claim to hold sacred is necessary.

If he does not, then I pray for him to have mercy upon your eternal spirit.

Gabriel wrote:You're having your nose removed? Congratulations!

All you've managed to do is strengthen his convictions with this track, and you're still going? Congratulations!

It not necessary to pray for me. Pray instead for sinners.

Indeed, after this latest test of faith I feel how the Most High raises me to a higher level of experience and power.

Seek the Will of the Most High in all that you do and be sustained.

Bad ass.

I have a question for you, Gabriel.

You have seemed quite accepting of me despite being a confessed killer and all around bad person.

Why so down on Mr. Brimstone? So far as we know, he hasn't killed any actual people. Maybe he killed some fey and maybe he killed an angel. Maybe it was a delusional dream. And maybe things were not as they appear at all.

Between Mr. Brimstone and myself, I am sure many would see him as the lesser of two evils.

I don't understand your acceptance of the greater evil and condemnation of the lesser.