We Were Not Alone
Re: We Were Not Alone
There are similarities to 'blood brother' type oaths and rituals. And supposedly it makes the recipient a full fledged therianthrope, not some pale cursed copy. It's quite fascinating.
"After Hiroshima was bombed, I saw a photograph of the side of a house with the shadows of the people who had lived there burned into the wall from the intensity of the bomb. The people were gone, but their shadows remained."
-Ray Bradbury
-Ray Bradbury
Re: We Were Not Alone
I know Cynthia has been quite interested in it.
Hi, I'm Darcy! 
"Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to."
-Oscar Wilde.
"Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to."
-Oscar Wilde.
Re: We Were Not Alone
The few elders on the rez who remembered the old tales would tell of ancient men speaking with the animals and learning from them. My later life experiences have brought me to believe that it may have been what you call therians that my ancestors spoke to.
The scholars say that when my ancestors came to this land, we were the first humans here.
Perhaps it is possible that before man came to the Americas, this place was home to another people who my people later remembered as speaking spirit animals.
The scholars say that when my ancestors came to this land, we were the first humans here.
Perhaps it is possible that before man came to the Americas, this place was home to another people who my people later remembered as speaking spirit animals.
Re: We Were Not Alone
Hello Kermode. Welcome to the Lazlo Society.
It is impossible to know at this point if such beings were here prior to the arrival of man or arrived with man. If they arrived before man, they appear to have left little evidence of their existence. Of course they may well have shunned the use of tools and may not have left fossil evidence.
It is impossible to know at this point if such beings were here prior to the arrival of man or arrived with man. If they arrived before man, they appear to have left little evidence of their existence. Of course they may well have shunned the use of tools and may not have left fossil evidence.
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Re: We Were Not Alone
Welcome Kermode
What therians were is not as significant an issue as a lot of others. Who they are and what they are doing are the pressing topics for discussion. Some are certainly our friends. Others are the exact opposite. Culturally it seems like violence is far more acceptable as a means of problem solving in the were-folk community than it is in human culture, which we all know falls into violence far to readily as it is. Combine that with centuries of enmity and we get a lot of bloodshed.
The result is a situation in which knowing the origins of the species and the conflict is irrelevant to resolving that conflict. It has become a lifestyle in many ways. Humans and Were-folk who hunt and kill each other have personal reasons for participating rather than really caring about what happened thousands or tens of thousands of years ago. We need to treat those reasons if we are going to end this, otherwise any efforts to end the conflict by destroying the participants from one or both sides will only create new, more embittered fighters.
If there is a relationship between humanity and the origin of were-folk, and there likely is, it will have no real effect on this conflict. If we are kin, it matters not because the were-folk stalk and kill their kin just as readily as they do humans. If we were their creators, any debt of gratitude has long since expired in centuries of persecution. If we were their masters, their fear of being once again subjected will drive them further into conflict with us.
It is clear in the folklore of many cultures that humans and therians can work together for mutual benefit. I am certain similar co-operation based on mutual respect is still possible on a wide-scale.
But I'm ranting now, so I'll leave this as it is.
Hannah Knight
What therians were is not as significant an issue as a lot of others. Who they are and what they are doing are the pressing topics for discussion. Some are certainly our friends. Others are the exact opposite. Culturally it seems like violence is far more acceptable as a means of problem solving in the were-folk community than it is in human culture, which we all know falls into violence far to readily as it is. Combine that with centuries of enmity and we get a lot of bloodshed.
The result is a situation in which knowing the origins of the species and the conflict is irrelevant to resolving that conflict. It has become a lifestyle in many ways. Humans and Were-folk who hunt and kill each other have personal reasons for participating rather than really caring about what happened thousands or tens of thousands of years ago. We need to treat those reasons if we are going to end this, otherwise any efforts to end the conflict by destroying the participants from one or both sides will only create new, more embittered fighters.
If there is a relationship between humanity and the origin of were-folk, and there likely is, it will have no real effect on this conflict. If we are kin, it matters not because the were-folk stalk and kill their kin just as readily as they do humans. If we were their creators, any debt of gratitude has long since expired in centuries of persecution. If we were their masters, their fear of being once again subjected will drive them further into conflict with us.
It is clear in the folklore of many cultures that humans and therians can work together for mutual benefit. I am certain similar co-operation based on mutual respect is still possible on a wide-scale.
But I'm ranting now, so I'll leave this as it is.
Hannah Knight
I will be who I chose to be.
Re: We Were Not Alone
Some people want to know simply for the sake of knowing and as a separate point of interest to dealing with an ages old conflict. That knowing won't resolve the conflict does not absolve the desire or need to know.
"After Hiroshima was bombed, I saw a photograph of the side of a house with the shadows of the people who had lived there burned into the wall from the intensity of the bomb. The people were gone, but their shadows remained."
-Ray Bradbury
-Ray Bradbury
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Shang Li
- Posts: 753
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 1:42 pm
- Location: Nowhere, Everywhere, I am unsure how to explain it
Re: We Were Not Alone
I had never bothered to contemplate the possibility of man and and those this thread has taken to calling therians. I have always taken each individual as an individual and responded as my beliefs deemed appropriate.
Our kinds being related in the distant past makes a lot of sense however.
The armies do not wage war on the tiger, nor does the monk attempt to teach the tiger the way.
The tengu have alternately been at war with the monks of my homeland, and have also been some of our greatest and most respected teachers.
The temple stories of the monks of similar orders in the land of the setting sun show a similar relationship with the tigers of their homeland.
Here, the native cultures have likewise been friend, foe, and brother to "skinwalkers" of many sorts - I have little knowledge of the native american cultures and beliefs, but that is something I hope to rectify through my wanderings in the few wild places left.
What is the cause of the difference in our reaction to a were beast and a dangerous wild animal? Do we instinctively feel and remember a shared history? Do we aid some and go to war with others because that is how we respond to our own kind?
Our kinds being related in the distant past makes a lot of sense however.
The armies do not wage war on the tiger, nor does the monk attempt to teach the tiger the way.
The tengu have alternately been at war with the monks of my homeland, and have also been some of our greatest and most respected teachers.
The temple stories of the monks of similar orders in the land of the setting sun show a similar relationship with the tigers of their homeland.
Here, the native cultures have likewise been friend, foe, and brother to "skinwalkers" of many sorts - I have little knowledge of the native american cultures and beliefs, but that is something I hope to rectify through my wanderings in the few wild places left.
What is the cause of the difference in our reaction to a were beast and a dangerous wild animal? Do we instinctively feel and remember a shared history? Do we aid some and go to war with others because that is how we respond to our own kind?
Understanding, is not a thing that comes swiftly, but rather in stages, a journey that once begun, must be seen to it's end.
Re: We Were Not Alone
Shang Li,
The assumption in your post seems to be that we choose our relations with Therians (or anyone for that matter). It takes two to be friends but only one to be enemies.
We can extend our hands in friendship but they have to be taken in kind.
Even before that there are some of us who must let go of long held misconceptions.
The assumption in your post seems to be that we choose our relations with Therians (or anyone for that matter). It takes two to be friends but only one to be enemies.
We can extend our hands in friendship but they have to be taken in kind.
Even before that there are some of us who must let go of long held misconceptions.
Hi, I'm Darcy!
"Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to."
-Oscar Wilde.
"Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to."
-Oscar Wilde.
-
Shang Li
- Posts: 753
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 1:42 pm
- Location: Nowhere, Everywhere, I am unsure how to explain it
Re: We Were Not Alone
But we do choose our relationship with them, each and every one of us.
Just as each and every one of them chooses their relationship with us.
I was merely pointing out that our responses to them are unlike the response we give to a "mere" beast, no matter how dangerous. Instead our response to them runs to the extremes that are normally limited to our fellow man.
Just as each and every one of them chooses their relationship with us.
I was merely pointing out that our responses to them are unlike the response we give to a "mere" beast, no matter how dangerous. Instead our response to them runs to the extremes that are normally limited to our fellow man.
Understanding, is not a thing that comes swiftly, but rather in stages, a journey that once begun, must be seen to it's end.
Re: We Were Not Alone
Sorry, but if someone's trying to kill you, then they've made the choice of relationship for you. And if you're trying to kill them, then you've taken the choice away from them in turn. No matter how you want to pretty it up, at its heart violence includes a violation and denial of agency from one party to another. Indeed, the denial of agency can be considered a form of violence even if it is not physically acted on.
As for how they're treated and how they treat us, I think it's complex and varies from person to person. There are indeed people who treat Therians as nothing more than animals. There are also those (especially amongst forum goers here) that treat them as equal entities (either as enemies or allies).
Amongst the Therians there are those that treat us as prey, some would treat us as slaves and there are those that treat us as equals. There are also those that fear us.
So from that perspective I agree that the issue is complex because there are groups of individuals on both sides and each individual has a unique point of view.
I'm reminded of a class I had in school. The teacher wanted to teach us about diversity and why prejudices happen. She showed us this video. It's geared for workplace relations but it can be an eye opener for issues regardless. And like the opener says, the O's can be any group that is out numbered by another group. I certainly understand what it like to be a woman in a male dominated profession and culture. But when you realize that the same issues are faced by racial groups, religious groups, secular groups, gender groups, sexual orientation groups, social groups... and for the purposes of this discussion, even paranormal groups; well it makes you realize that at some time or another we've all faced the same problems. It also means, at some point or another, we've all been part of the problem.
Of course as any 12 step group will tell you, realizing there is a problem is the first step. Sometimes the hardest step (since you have to realize the problem is often with you). That doesn't mean you can stop though. There are 11 more steps to take and some of them are going to be painful.
As for how they're treated and how they treat us, I think it's complex and varies from person to person. There are indeed people who treat Therians as nothing more than animals. There are also those (especially amongst forum goers here) that treat them as equal entities (either as enemies or allies).
Amongst the Therians there are those that treat us as prey, some would treat us as slaves and there are those that treat us as equals. There are also those that fear us.
So from that perspective I agree that the issue is complex because there are groups of individuals on both sides and each individual has a unique point of view.
I'm reminded of a class I had in school. The teacher wanted to teach us about diversity and why prejudices happen. She showed us this video. It's geared for workplace relations but it can be an eye opener for issues regardless. And like the opener says, the O's can be any group that is out numbered by another group. I certainly understand what it like to be a woman in a male dominated profession and culture. But when you realize that the same issues are faced by racial groups, religious groups, secular groups, gender groups, sexual orientation groups, social groups... and for the purposes of this discussion, even paranormal groups; well it makes you realize that at some time or another we've all faced the same problems. It also means, at some point or another, we've all been part of the problem.
Of course as any 12 step group will tell you, realizing there is a problem is the first step. Sometimes the hardest step (since you have to realize the problem is often with you). That doesn't mean you can stop though. There are 11 more steps to take and some of them are going to be painful.
Hi, I'm Darcy!
"Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to."
-Oscar Wilde.
"Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to."
-Oscar Wilde.
Re: We Were Not Alone
What's that saying?
"Only Nixon could go to China."
"Only Nixon could go to China."
Hi! I'm Cynthia and I am my mother's daughter.
Defunct the strings
Of cemetary things
With one flat foot
On the devil's wing
Defunct the strings
Of cemetary things
With one flat foot
On the devil's wing
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Shang Li
- Posts: 753
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 1:42 pm
- Location: Nowhere, Everywhere, I am unsure how to explain it
Re: We Were Not Alone
Even when attacked, choice exists. Just because you dislike the choice does not make it cease to be there.
Even when they are attacking me, or even innocents, I have a choice - I could choose to be eaten or have innocents harmed, I could choose to attempt to subdue, I could choose to be eaten, I could choose to escape and watch the being, or I can choose to end the threat in a permanent manner. Just because I make the choice to meet their violence with more violence does not mean those other choices were not there.
But the discussion of our respective philosophies, and what drives the choices we make is best left to a different thread, and I apologize for sidetracking this thread into the philosophical.
Even when they are attacking me, or even innocents, I have a choice - I could choose to be eaten or have innocents harmed, I could choose to attempt to subdue, I could choose to be eaten, I could choose to escape and watch the being, or I can choose to end the threat in a permanent manner. Just because I make the choice to meet their violence with more violence does not mean those other choices were not there.
But the discussion of our respective philosophies, and what drives the choices we make is best left to a different thread, and I apologize for sidetracking this thread into the philosophical.
Understanding, is not a thing that comes swiftly, but rather in stages, a journey that once begun, must be seen to it's end.
Re: We Were Not Alone
Since you didn't really address the content of my message, I'll repeat it.
Sorry, but if someone's trying to kill you, then they've made the choice of relationship for you. And if you're trying to kill them, then you've taken the choice away from them in turn. No matter how you want to pretty it up, at its heart violence includes a violation and denial of agency from one party to another. Indeed, the denial of agency can be considered a form of violence even if it is not physically acted on.
You may have a choice of action or reaction. But you might not as well. You don't always get a choice in life and sometimes others choose how your relationship with them will go despite your wishes or choices.
Sorry, but if someone's trying to kill you, then they've made the choice of relationship for you. And if you're trying to kill them, then you've taken the choice away from them in turn. No matter how you want to pretty it up, at its heart violence includes a violation and denial of agency from one party to another. Indeed, the denial of agency can be considered a form of violence even if it is not physically acted on.
You may have a choice of action or reaction. But you might not as well. You don't always get a choice in life and sometimes others choose how your relationship with them will go despite your wishes or choices.
Hi, I'm Darcy!
"Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to."
-Oscar Wilde.
"Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to."
-Oscar Wilde.
Re: We Were Not Alone
Shang Li wrote:But the discussion of our respective philosophies, and what drives the choices we make is best left to a different thread, and I apologize for sidetracking this thread into the philosophical.
No one accused of you derailing the thread nor complained about it. The thread was already dealing with philosophy before you arrived on the scene so you certainly didn't 'derail' it there. Note the posts by several people on the subject of the Therians, their origins, who they are today and how they should be regarded by others.
Ron Caliburn for example would like to imagine a world where they are descended from animals as that would suit his own views on them or he imagines cause them some angst.
His daughters on the other hand both feel they should be considered people and individuals and treated accordingly (so you weren't exactly introducing new concepts into the thread at all).
And of course there was the back and forth between Hannah and Cynthia regarding whether or not the topic of Therian origins should be pursued. There was also some discussion about the ethics of science on a related tangent.
This was of course why the thread is in the Philosopher's Corner, because of the philosophical discussions it was intended to (and did in fact) generate.
If the thread was derailed at all, it was pretty much at the second post where it went from discussing human hybrids in general to Therians specifically. Though that's less a derailment and more of a tighter focus than originally intended.
However, since you espouse concern over derailment, I will accommodate you and put it back on the original tracks.
Here is a site purporting to be a news site that focuses on alien phenomenon. Linked is an article about human/extra-terrestrial hybrids. Another site has a quiz to help determine if you are in fact an alien hybrid. And this last site appears to be similar to our own but with a focus on aliens.
Some people believe that aliens have in the past or are currently creating human hybrids or have been meddling in the development of the human genome.
Are we then, as a species some ET science project? Were our creators literally from the heavens? Are aliens attempting to meddle with us today and if so, for what purpose?
Also, a couple of years ago a lab claimed to have unlocked the DNA of Big Foot. The claim indicated that Big Foot was actually a hybrid human and other unknown hominid ancestor. Not unlike the hybridization of modern humans with neanderthal and denisovan hybrids. Here is the Big Foot article.
"After Hiroshima was bombed, I saw a photograph of the side of a house with the shadows of the people who had lived there burned into the wall from the intensity of the bomb. The people were gone, but their shadows remained."
-Ray Bradbury
-Ray Bradbury
-
Shang Li
- Posts: 753
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 1:42 pm
- Location: Nowhere, Everywhere, I am unsure how to explain it
Re: We Were Not Alone
I don't know about extra terrestrial, but I am of the descendents of Amaterasu, the founder of this line (and all it's branches) supposedly "descended from the heavens" along with Okami Amaterasu herself and the imperial regalia. Might or might not be relevant, I do know that being of Amaterasu's blood, no matter how slight seems to make contact with the kami easier, and their messages more clear.
Understanding, is not a thing that comes swiftly, but rather in stages, a journey that once begun, must be seen to it's end.
Re: We Were Not Alone
The legends of most civilizations speak of others, why are we alway so surprised when we find evidence that those legends may have been true?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017 ... n-science/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017 ... n-science/
