There has been alot of people telling our resident druid necromancy is evil. I would like to get a debate started on why each of you belives this. I am not saying that there is not evil usage of necromancy, I am curious as to what makes it evil in it's self.
Debate away please.
Michael T.
Magic: Which is evil?
Magic: Which is evil?
Beware the monster within, least it escape and take over your life.
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A. Pendragon
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In my mind, Magic is to evil as guns are to evil.
In other words, neither is inherently evil. It is a matter of the user and the use that the magic is put to. I would say that it is possible to find a good use for necromancy. Cant say I ever met a good necromancer, but its possible.
In other words, neither is inherently evil. It is a matter of the user and the use that the magic is put to. I would say that it is possible to find a good use for necromancy. Cant say I ever met a good necromancer, but its possible.
Fear the night because the night doesn't fear YOU!!!
Something that I have learned in my life: The dead just dont stay dead.
Freedom isn't as free as we have been taught!
Something that I have learned in my life: The dead just dont stay dead.
Freedom isn't as free as we have been taught!
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Prof. Rosecrest
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I can foresee this area getting a lot of abuse.
Now to the topic at hand. Magic is another tool for humanity to use, and like any tool it can be misused.
In the case of Necromancy you need to be very careful of course, as it can lend itself to misuse very easily.
KonThaak is trying to use it with the best intentions. He needs our support and aid along with maybe a few people to be a sounding board so he can insure he is on the right track. He does not need people telling him merely that he is wrong in using Necromancy plain and simple, because it is not plain and simple.
Just my take on things.
Now to the topic at hand. Magic is another tool for humanity to use, and like any tool it can be misused.
In the case of Necromancy you need to be very careful of course, as it can lend itself to misuse very easily.
KonThaak is trying to use it with the best intentions. He needs our support and aid along with maybe a few people to be a sounding board so he can insure he is on the right track. He does not need people telling him merely that he is wrong in using Necromancy plain and simple, because it is not plain and simple.
Just my take on things.
You can find answers in the Dark places.
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GhostSpider
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To make my views clear, I want to say this. My one and only concern is that KT might be creating a sort of paradox. He is a druid that is practicing necromancy. Certainly death is a part of life, but necromancy violates the natural cycle.
Now, I am a believer that magic is not inherently evil. It, like all sources of power, can be misused. Still, to me Necromancy has always smacked of darkness. This is only my personal feelings and it might not have any rational basis. I am only worried about his safety.
For myself, I only wish to continue to express my amusement over this topic. A Druid who uses necromancy.
Now, I am a believer that magic is not inherently evil. It, like all sources of power, can be misused. Still, to me Necromancy has always smacked of darkness. This is only my personal feelings and it might not have any rational basis. I am only worried about his safety.
For myself, I only wish to continue to express my amusement over this topic. A Druid who uses necromancy.
Konrad Andreas is at peace. I am something new.
WWVLD
WWVLD
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A. Pendragon
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Duh, didnt realize (wasnt paying attention) that KT is practicing Necromancy. But his "light" has never dulled in my eyes and I trust him explicitly.
Fear the night because the night doesn't fear YOU!!!
Something that I have learned in my life: The dead just dont stay dead.
Freedom isn't as free as we have been taught!
Something that I have learned in my life: The dead just dont stay dead.
Freedom isn't as free as we have been taught!
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Bert_the_Turtle
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Perhaps a large part of the misunderstanding comes from not truly understanding what "necromancy" is...
I'm going to start up a thread on this board about magic in general, now that it's finally open (THANK YOU, PENDRAGON!!!), but in the meantime, lemme explain...
Druidry focuses on a kind of magic called "nature magic". Some of the basest spells in this form could hardly be called spells, by those of a learned nature... It is, as the name implies, magic that focuses on the natural world. I'll get into more detail later, but "the natural world" neither focuses on life or death... There are many applications of nature magic, from boosting one's own strength through self-confidence to protection to healing to shapeshifting. The shapes I adopt are absolute; I adopt not only the shape of the creature, but their mind, mentality, and spirit as well.
Sorcery, another form of magic, focuses more on manipulation of the energies; theoretically, anyone can learn this form of magic, through study and practice, whereas nature magic is usually more intuitive. Because of its "looser" nature, sorcery can imitate other forms of magic through careful study and applications of different magical formulae, to manipulate the energies in the same manner as mystics or psychics do. It's usually less energy-efficient, however, than to mystics or others who learn their abilities naturally... Of all the kinds of magic, sorcery has the most applications, and fewer limitations.
Necromancy is a form of sorcery, rather than nature magic or other mysticism. The applications of necromancy, as I have come to understand them, are, therefore, many and extremely varied. There are spiritual focuses, magic that interacts with the spiritual realm, ranging from being as harmless as simple communication to being as karma-damaging as subjugation of spirits. There are also magics that can capture a soul in a state of stasis at the point of death, allowing the necromancer the chance to plant the soul in another body, be it a golem (or homunculus, or other magical construct), an animated zombie or flesh golem, or in another living body that, for whatever reason, has no soul of its own.
There is, of course, the stereotypical "undeath" magic, the animation of corpses, skeletons, mummies, and whatnot... Contrary to what many people think, this doesn't necessarily go against my ways. It isn't unnatural to animate a corpse as a zombie; rather, in my most humble of opinions, it is far more unnatural to tell a tree to uproot itself to attack my enemies, which is what many people think about when they think of druids... Ask me which is more TASTEFUL, and I will wholeheartedly agree that, unnatural or not, I won't be raising zombies for any purpose whatsoever.
Much of the prejudice against necromancy comes from the animation of the dead, the desecration of the bodies of those who are resting. It seems unholy and terrible to raise someone's father, or sister, or cousin, etc, and force them to do your bidding... The fact of the matter is, the necromancer that does this is merely borrowing the fallen shells that those who have passed no longer need. Children play with cicada shells, in much the same way (minus the magical re-animation, and on a physical sense rather than a metaphysical sense).
There are other applications of necromancy, but most of them are far more advanced than I will ever delve, and I'm not entirely certain I understand how they work... The notes I have of them are sketchy, at best.
Again, I DO NOT CONDONE THE RAISING OF CORPSES. I DO NOT SUPPORT THOSE WHO DO. I simply do not condemn the act on its merit alone; rather, I condemn those who would perform the act based on the selfish reasons most of them do it.
I am a mystic by nature, but I have studied sorcery as part of my druidic training. I'm very good at mathematics, and sorcery came easier to me than it probably should've. This is why I can perform some necromantic abilities, despite being a mystic... It hasn't been as easy as I thought it would be; despite the fact that I am focusing myself on the more innocuous forms of spiritual magics, I feel rather more drained than I do performing other sorcerous acts... Perhaps the fact that I don't focus on "death" magic has something to do with this...?
I'm going to start up a thread on this board about magic in general, now that it's finally open (THANK YOU, PENDRAGON!!!), but in the meantime, lemme explain...
Druidry focuses on a kind of magic called "nature magic". Some of the basest spells in this form could hardly be called spells, by those of a learned nature... It is, as the name implies, magic that focuses on the natural world. I'll get into more detail later, but "the natural world" neither focuses on life or death... There are many applications of nature magic, from boosting one's own strength through self-confidence to protection to healing to shapeshifting. The shapes I adopt are absolute; I adopt not only the shape of the creature, but their mind, mentality, and spirit as well.
Sorcery, another form of magic, focuses more on manipulation of the energies; theoretically, anyone can learn this form of magic, through study and practice, whereas nature magic is usually more intuitive. Because of its "looser" nature, sorcery can imitate other forms of magic through careful study and applications of different magical formulae, to manipulate the energies in the same manner as mystics or psychics do. It's usually less energy-efficient, however, than to mystics or others who learn their abilities naturally... Of all the kinds of magic, sorcery has the most applications, and fewer limitations.
Necromancy is a form of sorcery, rather than nature magic or other mysticism. The applications of necromancy, as I have come to understand them, are, therefore, many and extremely varied. There are spiritual focuses, magic that interacts with the spiritual realm, ranging from being as harmless as simple communication to being as karma-damaging as subjugation of spirits. There are also magics that can capture a soul in a state of stasis at the point of death, allowing the necromancer the chance to plant the soul in another body, be it a golem (or homunculus, or other magical construct), an animated zombie or flesh golem, or in another living body that, for whatever reason, has no soul of its own.
There is, of course, the stereotypical "undeath" magic, the animation of corpses, skeletons, mummies, and whatnot... Contrary to what many people think, this doesn't necessarily go against my ways. It isn't unnatural to animate a corpse as a zombie; rather, in my most humble of opinions, it is far more unnatural to tell a tree to uproot itself to attack my enemies, which is what many people think about when they think of druids... Ask me which is more TASTEFUL, and I will wholeheartedly agree that, unnatural or not, I won't be raising zombies for any purpose whatsoever.
Much of the prejudice against necromancy comes from the animation of the dead, the desecration of the bodies of those who are resting. It seems unholy and terrible to raise someone's father, or sister, or cousin, etc, and force them to do your bidding... The fact of the matter is, the necromancer that does this is merely borrowing the fallen shells that those who have passed no longer need. Children play with cicada shells, in much the same way (minus the magical re-animation, and on a physical sense rather than a metaphysical sense).
There are other applications of necromancy, but most of them are far more advanced than I will ever delve, and I'm not entirely certain I understand how they work... The notes I have of them are sketchy, at best.
Again, I DO NOT CONDONE THE RAISING OF CORPSES. I DO NOT SUPPORT THOSE WHO DO. I simply do not condemn the act on its merit alone; rather, I condemn those who would perform the act based on the selfish reasons most of them do it.
I am a mystic by nature, but I have studied sorcery as part of my druidic training. I'm very good at mathematics, and sorcery came easier to me than it probably should've. This is why I can perform some necromantic abilities, despite being a mystic... It hasn't been as easy as I thought it would be; despite the fact that I am focusing myself on the more innocuous forms of spiritual magics, I feel rather more drained than I do performing other sorcerous acts... Perhaps the fact that I don't focus on "death" magic has something to do with this...?
I am not A bitch...I am THE bitch. And to you, I'm MS Bitch.
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Bert_the_Turtle
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GhostSpider
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concrete_Angel
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Well, this is a philosophy corner, right? I call upon the wisdom of the philosopher MLK. That's right, he was a philosopher, too! What an amazingly versatile man he was... So very deserving of his own day!
He believed that a majority, or superior power, has the right to exercise their rights and attain happiness. However, this happiness, if it interferes or impedes with the minorities' rights to happiness, then the majority is abusing their power.
This can be applied here, too. If a druid has a power, and exercises these powers without impeding on others' rights to eternal rest, then by all means, it is a legitimate use of his power. I'm not sure I understand what he's saying he plans on using his powers for, but as long as he's sure he's not stepping on any innocents' toes in the process, use of these skills should be fine... Again, I'm having to try and be very open minded, every time I think of necromancy, I think of all those zombie flick's I've seen throughout my life.
He believed that a majority, or superior power, has the right to exercise their rights and attain happiness. However, this happiness, if it interferes or impedes with the minorities' rights to happiness, then the majority is abusing their power.
This can be applied here, too. If a druid has a power, and exercises these powers without impeding on others' rights to eternal rest, then by all means, it is a legitimate use of his power. I'm not sure I understand what he's saying he plans on using his powers for, but as long as he's sure he's not stepping on any innocents' toes in the process, use of these skills should be fine... Again, I'm having to try and be very open minded, every time I think of necromancy, I think of all those zombie flick's I've seen throughout my life.
"God, I know you say you love all of your children equally, but you don't, do ya? I'm on to you, big guy." Dr. Percival Cox
See, that's what I'm talking about; misconceptions of what necromancy is.
As for why I'm practicing it at all... There's a dark druid, a druid that practices necromancy, deals with vampires, and seeks the destruction of society, who is going to be making a comeback from beyond the grave this year... I need to know how to foil his magics. I can possibly prevent his return... If not, I can at least help to stop what he's planning.
As for why I'm practicing it at all... There's a dark druid, a druid that practices necromancy, deals with vampires, and seeks the destruction of society, who is going to be making a comeback from beyond the grave this year... I need to know how to foil his magics. I can possibly prevent his return... If not, I can at least help to stop what he's planning.
I am not A bitch...I am THE bitch. And to you, I'm MS Bitch.
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Kei Nakamura
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Ron Caliburn
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Ron Caliburn
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Sure, but I warn you, Windner had been studying nuclear and quantum physics before he started practicing magic, and he had a damned good grasp of what he was studying. All the necromancy and sorcery he wrote about in his notes were primarily personal magical theory, practiced and refined until it worked as intended.
In short, he was a man who followed the philosophies of Middle Ages druidry, and taught himself necromancy between his mysticism and modern physics.
If I didn't have a good grounding in math, I wouldn't understand most of what this guy made notes about...
In short, he was a man who followed the philosophies of Middle Ages druidry, and taught himself necromancy between his mysticism and modern physics.
If I didn't have a good grounding in math, I wouldn't understand most of what this guy made notes about...
I am not A bitch...I am THE bitch. And to you, I'm MS Bitch.
I am no slouch in math myself one of the fields my mentor pressed on us, it does help witrh some fields of magic. As to the quatum physics I have a good base in it as well, no where near you probably, but I should be able to get through it with your assisstance.
Michael T.
Michael T.
Beware the monster within, least it escape and take over your life.
I think magic can be evil in two ways. The first is simply using magic to further your own evil intentions (the dark side if you will). I.E. Using it in greed, anger, hatred.
The second is the magic that goes against what nature intended. Some things are not meant to be changed, and I believe a druid would understand this point. For example, no one knows what lies beyond the veil of death. We do not know what we are bringing back from it or what consequences we are unleashing in the process.
The second is the magic that goes against what nature intended. Some things are not meant to be changed, and I believe a druid would understand this point. For example, no one knows what lies beyond the veil of death. We do not know what we are bringing back from it or what consequences we are unleashing in the process.
“Whoever starts out toward the unknown must consent to venture alone.” - Andre Gide
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Ron Caliburn
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GhostSpider
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Ron Caliburn
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