Ghost in the Machine

[Grace]

So yeah, apparently your computer could be haunted. Or possessed. So next time you're looking at porn on the computer, just remember, the devil made you do it.

Now for the skeptics point of view. The last one, about emergent intelligence on the internet? That's sort of creepy because they just say it's unlikely, not impossible.

[Holister]

Hi Darcy

About this post, as down right frightening as this may sound, the concept something inhabiting the internet is not that far fetched. I may not be an egghead science type, but if I remember my 9th grade science right, energy cannot be destroyed, it can only change form. So in my opinion is it possible for some entity to "possess" the internet and lash out from your computer, I would have to say yes to that. After all, what is evil, but another form of energy?

Whoa...thinks I channeled a bit of Master Li with that last part.

[Grace]

Hey Ben, long time no see.

I'm not an egghead either but yeah, it at least seems feasible that computers could be possessed. Possession of inanimate objects seems to go back as far as any mythology. Just because the objects are new doesn't mean they would be immune.

I'm not sure about the internet. It's not exactly a thing but it is at the same time. I'm not sure if it can be possessed as such. But accessed? Almost probably.

Given how connected we are these days, it's kind of a scary thought.

I wonder what could be done to protect ourselves from an invasive and hostile presence on the internet?

[Holister]

Hi Again

Well it is probable that an entity could enter and use the internet, couldn't we establish some sort of techno-psychic defense or perhaps a spell defense as well. After all, magic is energy too right?

[Athena]

There are reasons that electric or electronic machines are rarely (though occasionally) the targets for possession.

The first has to do with the electro-magnetic spectrum and how paranormal elements interact with it. This relates to how compasses go haywire, radio transmissions become garbled, drops in temperature and even why entities are not visible in the visible light spectrum.

Different entities interact with the electro-magnetic spectrum in different ways. Most seem optimized to possess organic brains, most especially human brains. Computers and the internet are foriegn and even hostile environments to most entities. There are of course exceptions but they are on the rare side.

Likewise, different wavelengths on the electromagnetic spectrum have shown to interfere with paranormal powers. There are a subset of abilities that are optimized for interaction with machines but even these abilities can be interefered with on some wavelengths.

There is also the subject of motive and emotions. These entities have demonstrated a desire for emotional interaction. Machines do not have emotions. They cannot be made afraid. They cannot be made to hate. They cannot be made to feel a sense of loss. They cannot lose hope. The only reason for an entity to possess a machine is to elicit these emotions from people. Therefore they do not optimize for such possession. Direct contact is easier and less resource intensive for them.

Studies are ongoing on how to use this information for detection and identification of supernatural entities. Some progress has also been made on interference and countermeasures.

[Gotham Witch]

Possession of electronic devices... considering their ubiquitous presence in modern life, that is an unnerving thought.

[Cybermancer]

Quite right, GW. Something I've been looking into for some time.

[Ron Caliburn]

The way I figure it, the more complex and intelligent devices get, the easier it'll be for something to find a way in and the more havoc it can wreak when it's in there.

[Athena]

I don't find that to be a comforting thought.

[Grace]

Personally, as an individual who lacks any sort of sensativity or defense against the supernatural, I find the idea of being able to use technology to help me in that regard to be comforting thought.

But at the same time I'm a little apprehensive because I'd have no idea if that very same technology was being used against me. While I know it's not magical or mysterious and I'm proficient in its use, that doesn't mean I fully understand it. In some ways, people like Cybermancer may as well be a wizard. Something I suspect he may play to given his handle.

Magic or technology, I'll use the tools I'm given as best I can.

Which reminds me. What can anyone tell me about these?

[skeptic]

Find your off switch. Problem solved.
Hollister, you remember 9th grade science class only part right. Energy is not a thing that exists. It's a calculated quantity.

[Athena]

Skeptic,

You are mistaken in your assumption that there would be an off switch. As discussed, there may be multiple units operating in parallel and they may have independent power sources.

So no, problem is not solved.

You haven't even tackled the first issue.

Finding it.

[skeptic]

Electronic devices not having an off switch.
Interesting idea.

[Athena]

Skeptic,

It is not a new concept. Electronic devices meant to be on permanently do not have off switches. Some internet routers, for example.

Many devices today lack a physical off switch, relying instead on wireless controls. It is not a stretch of the imagination to eliminate that wireless control.

All of which is mute if the device can't be found.

[skeptic]

Your mistake is you're being too literal.
Either road, everything in the OP can be explained rather simply.
Sexually repressed moms get their freak on in chat rooms because they're possessed by human desires which have no other outlet.
Any script kiddie can pop up a message and print gobblygook.

[Athena]

Skeptic,

The OP already pointed out the skeptical point of view and how the first point could be explained.

Emergent artificial intelligence was declared unlikely but not impossible. Therefore not simply explained away.

Nor is being literal a mistake.

[skeptic]

It is when it makes you be wrong.
Like it just did for you.

[Athena]

Skeptic,

Nothing I have said is wrong. Your declarations to the contrary are unsupported.

[skeptic]

Obviously my claim is unsupported.
Electric circuits always have uninterrupted current.

[Athena]

Skeptic,

I will not engage in your straw man argument. No statement was made that electronic devices always have uninterrupted current. To attempt to suggest that is what was stated is fallacious and intellectually dishonest.

The only true thing stated in your last post is that your claim (that I am incorrect in my statements) is obviously unsupported.

I will not be reading or responding to your further posts. It is clear based on your interactions with me and your posting history here that you seek only to confirm your own biases. You do not engage in honest intellectual discussion and have not shown the least interest in any evidence that does not support your own biases unless you believe you can debunk it. You are not interested in even true debunking of ideas, you only dismiss them.

You may choose to continue to waste your resources here but I will not continue to waste resources on you.

[skeptic]

You are wrong. Again.
You are the one with the straw man argument.
You misrepresented "off switch" as being a literal, phyiscal switch.
You were wrong. I told you you were wrong.
You denied it.
See, by telling me what I meant despite me telling you what I meant you built a straw man.
You know what a straw man is.
But you do not know one when you see it.

I have been investigating the paranormal for over thirty years.
I have never dismissed anything.

Feel free to support your assertions against me.
Or just claim victory and walk away.
But that says more about you than it does about me.

[Grace]

Either road, everything in the OP can be explained rather simply.
Sexually repressed moms get their freak on in chat rooms because they're possessed by human desires which have no other outlet.
Any script kiddie can pop up a message and print gobblygook.

This is you dismissing something in this very thread. It's not the first time you've done it either.

You can be pretty aggravating, even to people who like you (IE me). I know you're trying to help but really, half the time you come off as though you're trolling. It's like an atheist going to religious forums and telling them all they're all wrong.

Honestly though, it's your own posts that say things about you and that's what you should be concerned about. This is not the first time, recently that someone has gone off on you. It's either everyone else, or it's you. Occam's razor suggests its not everyone else.

Now, if everyone is quite done derailing my thread, I'd be interested in actual discussion about the subject.

[skeptic]

I dismissed nothing. I offered an explanation for human behaviour in a chat room.
The preacher says that if the priest does not solve your computer problems contact your local Geek Squad.
I am not dismissing that.

Pointing out where and how someone is wrong is not trolling.
I know that the truth can be aggravating.
But I cannot help that.

If by "Occam's Razor" you mean "Appeal to Popularity" then I agree.
If you do not, then you are wrong, too.

I attempted to discuss but I was jumped by a straw man.

[Grace]

Apparently you are unable to see when you are dismissive (like announcing when everyone else is wrong) or any of the other aggravating things you do. That might explain why you do it so often.

But hey, do whatever you want. You're going to anyway. Just don't be surprised when people stop responding to your posts.

[skeptic]

I did not announce.
I explained.
I said something that was misrepresented.
What's the problem? Where's the dismissiveness?

I reject your appeal to popularity as a valid argument.
That's not being dismissive.
That's being logical.

Either road, I'm never surprised when people scurry away from the truth.

[Grace]

Funny you would say that, being blind to the truth as you are.

[skeptic]

Perhaps instead you could deal with the truth that what I said was misrepresented and that you appealed to popularity rather than applied Occam's Razor?

[Cybermancer]

Time to get things back on track before the thread degenerates any further.

It is a fact that psionic abilities affect the electromagnetic spectrum in different ways.

I have documented evidence of psychics who could provide electrical power to devices, acting as biological batteries. Other psychic abilities have been shown to be able to interact with technology a great deal. In extreme cases, machines and computers have been taken over by these psyhics.

In another test, a psychic was able to see into the infrared spectrum.

Related tests have shown psychics able to manipulate the flow of electricity, stopping it, redirecting it or causing to arc.

Pyrokentic abilities also fall into the category of psychic abilities that interact in different ways with the electromagnetic spectrum and thermal energy, naturally.

Human psychics, in growing numbers in the last century have shown increased aptitude for technology and interfacing with it in new ways.

Magic has been slower to adapt although there is at least one spell known to me that can cease the flow of electrical power.

This evidence strongly supports a connection between paranormal abilities and the electromagnetic spectrum. It also supports reports claiming changes in temperature, compasses spinning around or showing the wrong direction, radio interference and the use of EM detectors by nearly all modern ghost hunters.

As it is obvious that paranormal abilities interact with and effect the electromagnetic spectrum, then it is possible that the reverse is also true. Research in that direction continues. I expect to be able to create devices that can not only detect disturbances in the EM specturm by paranormal abilities, but also perhaps interfere with those abilities to some extent.